Moore In or Out?

[scilly owl]

“ It’s going to come again when we have three game weeks and we have to learn from it”

What a totally stupid comment. Everything about that statement is ridiculous . I despair when managers come up with that sort of utter claptrap.

 

[Supersiggi2]

19 hours ago, beswetherick said:

They can press us so high because we insist on the keeper passing to a player stood two yards away, playing their entire team onside in the process… it’s mad. We must be so easy to play against. I’d love to see us play higher up the pitch, win first and second balls, and take the game to the opposites. We’ve got a decent set of players for this division, they’re capable of better results and performances than what we’ve produced so far. 

 

The whole point of playing out from the back is to invite the press. 

When they press and commit players forward, you play between the lines and counter press.

 

Leeds do it very well at times. Two or three passes and with energetic runners you can be through on their back 3 or 4 very quickly and over loading them. 

 

As a caveat, I would agree we don't have the players, particularly with Dunkley and Iorfa at CB to do this well. This is however why I think he persists with Johnson at LB, because he thinks he better on the ball than Brown and a more balanced option than playing Palmer there. 

Problem is Johnson cannot defend for toffee - its no coincidence that most opportunities that the opposition have come down that side.

[Tewkesbury]

2 minutes ago, Supersiggi2 said:

Leeds do it very well at times. Two or three passes and with energetic runners you can be through on their back 3 or 4 very quickly and over loading them

"With energetic runners"

 

That's the problem. We're trying to play this system with Gregory up front, who instead of running around and stretching the defence, making space for others, sits 3 yards our side of their CBs and closes it up, clogging midfield and making it easy to defend the channels, and leaving the only ball on a 10 yard pass to Johnson or Palmer.

Berahino yesterday and Kamberi earlier in the season did this and the system worked.

[Deepcar_lights]

He needs a Pelupessy 

[torryowl]

10 hours ago, Costello 77 said:

Indeed. What's your assessment Torry?

Not impressed so far but getting rid when he's only 10 games into having more or less his own squad seems harsh.....picking  his best team and sticking with it would help matters coz I think he's cutting his own throat by keep chopping and changing  .

[Deepcar_lights]

23 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

"With energetic runners"

 

That's the problem. We're trying to play this system with Gregory up front, who instead of running around and stretching the defence, making space for others, sits 3 yards our side of their CBs and closes it up, clogging midfield and making it easy to defend the channels, and leaving the only ball on a 10 yard pass to Johnson or Palmer.

Berahino yesterday and Kamberi earlier in the season did this and the system worked.

 

Thought that too, about Kamberi. We looked better. I thought he looked more of a handful than Gregory. I'd like to see more of him.

[Athelwulf]

The thing is, that first goal is the result of a player not knowing what to do.

 

His instincts (and ours) tell him to put it in the stand, but that contravenes the laws of Total Football and playing it out from the back.

 

But to play that way you don't only have to have top-notch defenders who can use the ball and function as one, but you also have to have players in front of you with the vision to give you an outlet.

 

This is the English Third Division, in old money, not Serie A.

 

In the case of Jos, the last time we flirted with this style, he was a foreigner and a Dutch one at that.

 

We were playing at a higher level during his tenure, with better players.

 

So you could maybe forgive Jos to some extent for that approach.

 

But Moore is former English defender who knows full well the limitations of defenders at this level.

 

I find it incredible that he can't see what so many fans in the stand can.

[shezzas left peg]

While im still in the mindset of giving him while Christmas and still hoping it clicks. 

Personally I beginning to think he's a he's a good coach, but not a good manager. Gets people training well and makes it fun and a good atmosphere, but just not got thd strategic Ior tactical ability to both set a team up right snd make an impact during games. 

[bigdan2003]

In. There is no point allowing a manager to begin rebuilding, bring in 14 new players to then sack him a couple of months into the season. Theres a whole new strategy from the top down by the looks of things. I think it’s going to need time.

 

That said, Moore has really got to find his best team and stick with it…and quick. Because winning at Wigan to then changing it up and losing at home to Oxford (who lost 4 players just before the game) is not good enough. 

[DJNick1212]

I think he needs to be given time, he’s got virtually a new squad, we can’t keep hiring and firing managers. It will come good. We just have to be patient 

[sternlad]

If I recall correctly, both Oxford goals came down their right where Johnson was playing his “square peg round hole” version of full back. The first goal was his fault for losing possession where he did, but I would have reasonably expected Dunkley to have covered that error and forced the attacker wider than he did. He showed him the by line, then failed to get close enough to ease him off the ball or force him down to the goal line. Poor defending really, but down to a lack of pace. Then you get the keeper not far enough across to cover his near post. A long time ago we had a keeper called Peter Grummitt who didn’t look too great at first, although he was no Springett, his positioning was spot on…no spectacular dives necessary, quick feet and body right behind the ball when shots came in…different ball used then which didn’t swerve all over the shop I suppose. But another step to his left and BPF saves that every time.

Their second goal we seemed to have 3 maybe 4 defenders in the box and still couldn’t stop the cross into the danger area…I was fed up of watching at this stage. It was an excellent poachers finish by their lad though, top marks to him for sneaking it around the corner…

If Mr Moore can’t get these basic selection problems and defensive howlers sorted out soon he will be sacked. It’ll be interesting what happens next weekend with selection, and what he will do to nullify Kieran Lee? I suspect lots more team changes with Hutch back, and will we see Luongo and Windass in some capacity?

 

[striker]

16 minutes ago, DJNick1212 said:

I think he needs to be given time, he’s got virtually a new squad, we can’t keep hiring and firing managers. It will come good. We just have to be patient 

I agree and I'm a Moore fan, but time is a virtue in football. We have to be able to see some plan, progress and even as one fully supportive of Moore struggle to see that. 

 

He did great to recruit the squad, too many players IMO, but on the pitch we've been largely average to poor, can't recall a really good 90 minute performance where we dominated the game and had plenty of chances and with due respect to other teams, with this squad in L1, new or otherwise, is what we should be doing. Especially with the bold statements out of our camp about winning the league, those just look really silly now bearing in mind the performances the players put in on the pitch. 

 

I'm still supportive of Moore but needs to earn that continued support, expect to see a marked improvement the next 5 games, a settled team, composure on the ball, movement and some attacking intent.

[WalthamOwl]

As the weeks go by we have to start seeing some improvements and a stable starting 11. We are almost a quarter of the way through the season and neither of those things are happening. Moore needs to sort this out and fast. 

[WorrallOwl17]

Out, book stops with him i'm afraid. Yes Chansiri has had years of shocking decisions but we can't blame him for this. The players recruited by DM and his team are good enough to be in the top 2 of this league. On paper we have defenders that have tonnes of championship experience, Hunt, Palmer, Hutchinson, Iorfa have played most of their careers in the championship, Johnson has played week in week out in the champ for the last two years, Wing and Denis have had a season in the champ last year and Wing even more past that, Gregory has scored plenty of goals in the champ over the last 5 years, Berahino was the next big thing in the Prem and hasn't turned into a bad player over night, Shodipo excelled in this league last season. The only real unknowns are Kamberi, Theo and Sow and they've all been bit part players anyway. The squad is there, but when it's getting chopped and changed week in week out we have no chance. And the style of play is horrible, boring and slow playing out from the back with defenders not capable is asking for trouble, no plan A, definitely no plan B, and we can't blame anyone else for this

[jp1981]

17 hours ago, jp1981 said:

Perhaps it's time to try and pursued Pearson to come in. Never really wanted him before, but I would be happy for him  to come in now.

I'd also take the bloke who Watford have just sacked.

[DNS]

Lose to Bolton and it's time to say farewell. 

 

Despite the embargo, Moore's overseen the full recruitment but doesn't know his best XI. A quarter of the way through the season and performances are getting worse with no indication they'll improve. 

[Mr Meadows]

On 03/10/2021 at 09:32, casbahowl said:

14 managers in 21 seasons is exactly why we’re in the position we’re in now & moronic threads like this epitomises the mentality of the internet fan!

 

 

 

Well that’s not exactly the reason is it? .. Financial mismanagement, poor recruitment of managers and players would be a lot higher up the list as to reasons why we are in the position we are in now.

 

of these 14 managers, how many didn’t deserve to be sacked or went on to prove us wrong with success at other clubs?

 

 

[daveyboy66]

I think he should get to the end of this month...if by then we haven't got a settled team and a change of tactics... he'll have to go as I can't see him changing anything

[Southie_Owl]

3 minutes ago, daveyboy66 said:

I think he should get to the end of this month...if by then we haven't got a settled team and a change of tactics... he'll have to go as I can't see him changing anything

Agreed,  the thing with Moore is he hasn’t actually got a solid background for us to put faith into.  He was sacked by West Brom as they felt he should be doing better with his resources. And at Doncaster they hadn’t won in 5 games before he joined us and their fans were happy to see him leave because of his management style.  
 

Clearly he’s a likeable guy and could well be a good coach. But the jury is certainly out on him being a good manager.  The question is have we backed the wrong horse and if so, how long do you give him to improve. Managerial decisions are always a punt. What if the manager you sack was about to turn things around in the next game? How many games do you leave it asking yourself that question before you actually sack him? 
 

I remember the Saints sacked Pardew in this league at the end of August - uproar from the masses! Then Adkins came in and got them back to back promotions.  Then the Saints sacked Adkins in the PL after a few games and drawing against Chelsea - uproar from the masses! Then they hired Potchettino.

 

So if we can hire a better manager than Moore I would do it tomorrow.  But i think Chansiri will leave it a few more months yet.

[Owls Loyal]

I agree 100% with daveyboy 66 and SouthieOwl.

 

Moore was underperforming at West Brom which is why they took the decision to fire him after Christmas when even the play off's were beginning to look uncertain. Doncaster was an OK job  but he has no promotion on his CV.

 

To be fair to DC he has backed Moore really well but the Manager is just not delivering.

 

It seems to me that the end of October is the absolute limit or we will be in League One for definite next season