nevthelodgemoorowl Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Costello 77 said: FFS. Thought provoking and intellectually constructive. Don't tell me you visited the Independent book shop in Barnsley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 The way people defend these two is scary 'Fantastic servant' cringest phrase on here You'd think they'd won champions league ,world cup and league title way people brag about them What have they achieved here? Topped up their pension and they have form for been mardy Get rid of both in summer ,and use wages on players who want to play and earn their wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigash_swfc Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Sergeant Tibbs said: Instead of quoting Pep and Toure why not mention Ferguson and Stam, or anybody else who crossed him. If all situations were the same, we wouldn't need managers, HR could deal with it. I might have been to afew Citeh games Think I've spoiled football for myself though, seeing the amount of abuse Raheem Sterling gets, even from their own fans. They talk him down like he's a league 2 player and hurl abuse. Kinda showed me, there's no nirvana in football, bar keeps getting raised until its unattainable. Edited February 6, 2020 by bigash_swfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, Costello 77 said: I'm on a bit of a one tonight.. making a stand.. we've been here before and it does get wearing. Keep going. One by one it will turn your way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Just now, nevthelodgemoorowl said: Thought provoking and intellectually constructive. Don't tell me you visited the Independent book shop in Barnsley I'm saying FA while you're in full wum mode with the performance features cranked up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, Costello 77 said: I'm on a bit of a one tonight.. making a stand.. we've been here before and it does get wearing. It does. One small bonus to it all though is that I've been able to retrieve this 'Frozen out' pic from the deleted files. Thought it was obsolete when Jos left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Nero said: Keep going. One by one it will turn your way.... I'll burn myself out before the 9 o'clock news starts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevthelodgemoorowl Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, WelshOwl74 said: The way people defend these two is scary 'Fantastic servant' cringest phrase on here You'd think they'd won champions league ,world cup and league title way people brag about them What have they achieved here? Topped up their pension and they have form for been mardy Get rid of both in summer ,and use wages on players who want to play and earn their wages Never mind the hear say bring on the evidence please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonbones Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said: Knowing as much if not a little more than our manager. GM should welcome their experience, not be afraid of it, take from them whatever he can ! I don't know. I guess these players who have been here a long time have something in business you would call experience - but no manager coming in really wants to be dictated to. I'm making an assumption - has Monk (and Jos previously) been dictated to by certain players? I see terms like "Toxic environment" and I wonder if this is true or not. I don't think certain managers in our past would have put up with that - but i'm going a long way back. Atkinson was our last strong manager. We've not had a true leader since, incuding Francis. Megson - ok I'll admit he was a strong manager. But no one else. Definitely not Jones. Even Yorath and Sturrock I would say succumbed to player rule to a certain extent, and Sturrock was a good man manager in the main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William 1867 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, prowl said: Bruce wasn't here long enough to have problems with anyone. About the same amount of time as Monk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookowl Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 15 minutes ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said: Knowing as much if not a little more than our manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i used to be sc_owl Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Sometimes working with the same people day in, day out can become frustrating. We’ve seen a lot of players come into the club for the core of the team has remained pretty static around Westwood, Lees, Hutchinson, Bannan and Forestieri. Maybe it has just become a bit stale. Maybe the players are frustrated? I wouldn’t be surprised if certain things have been said in the heat of the moment and now everyone has too much pride/ego to back down. The one person who should not back down, unless he’s made a huge error, is the manager. His word has to be law for discipline to hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch McLovin Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, WelshOwl74 said: The way people defend these two is scary 'Fantastic servant' cringest phrase on here You'd think they'd won champions league ,world cup and league title way people brag about them What have they achieved here? Topped up their pension and they have form for been mardy Get rid of both in summer ,and use wages on players who want to play and earn their wages It comes down to this... does the player in question improve us by playing regardless of prior action? Hutchinson yes Westwood no So I’d post hutch and not freeze him out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 41 minutes ago, Costello 77 said: That's exactly what I'd expect someone who doesn't agree with me to say..try again.. Try what again? When you get fed up of people having a differing view to yours - on a forum - then, yeah, obviously you're posting too much. Seems a bit precious of you to have expectations that people will agree with you, and get 'fed up' when they don't. And you've said already that you've decided Hutchinson's not worth the trouble despite knowing neither what he's done or what Monk's done in response. The point is, we just don't know. We've yet to see how this will play out. Should Monk decide to bring Hutchinson back into the fold, will you still feel he's not worthy of the trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 minute ago, cowl said: Try what again? When you get fed up of people having a differing view to yours - on a forum - then, yeah, obviously you're posting too much. Seems a bit precious of you to have expectations that people will agree with you, and get 'fed up' when they don't. And you've said already that you've decided Hutchinson's not worth the trouble despite knowing neither what he's done or what Monk's done in response. The point is, we just don't know. We've yet to see how this will play out. Should Monk decide to bring Hutchinson back into the fold, will you still feel he's not worthy of the trouble? Couple of things.. I can see that you've been on here enough to realise that I'm not precious about people disagreeing with my opinions.. If Monk brings Hutchinson back then he'll have his reasons..me? He can go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevthelodgemoorowl Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, Salmonbones said: I don't know. I guess these players who have been here a long time have something in business you would call experience - but no manager coming in really wants to be dictated to. I'm making an assumption - has Monk (and Jos previously) been dictated to by certain players? I see terms like "Toxic environment" and I wonder if this is true or not. I don't think certain managers in our past would have put up with that - but i'm going a long way back. Atkinson was our last strong manager. We've not had a true leader since, incuding Francis. Megson - ok I'll admit he was a strong manager. But no one else. Definitely not Jones. Even Yorath and Sturrock I would say succumbed to player rule to a certain extent, and Sturrock was a good man manager in the main. So they may or may not have had a spat. GM says he'll do everything to get a win. Putting Joey P in the team over Hutch degrades the team by a fair wedge. If GM can't rise above this he is constantly breaking his own golden rule. 'What is said in the dressing room stays in the dressing room' A rule for one is a rule for all get the reyt players picked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, WelshOwl74 said: The way people defend these two is scary 'Fantastic servant' cringest phrase on here You'd think they'd won champions league ,world cup and league title way people brag about them What have they achieved here? Topped up their pension and they have form for been mardy Get rid of both in summer ,and use wages on players who want to play and earn their wages The way people assume they know what has or hasn’t gone on is more scary Edited February 6, 2020 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Royal_D said: The way people assume they know what has or hasn’t gone on is more scary Why do you think he was training with the U23s when we were short in midfield? You're going to say you don't know so you're not going to speculate..fair enough..but if you want to silence the likes of me (which you're trying to do) then I'd give you some credence if you had a plausible explanation for why that occurred.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowl Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, Dutch McLovin said: It comes down to this... does the player in question improve us by playing regardless of prior action? Hutchinson yes Westwood no So I’d post hutch and not freeze him out Not really. Sometimes a player can be fantastic but if he's disruptive he can be so toxic to team cohesion that the team is actually better as a whole without him. Usually there are some backing the disruptive player and some not. Usually the ones backing the player are his mates, in this case they are likely to be other long standing players. You can almost guarantee that there are some of the newer players who have crossed swords with this group before. In our case the older established players have lost a lot of influence, Westwood losing out to Dawson, Lees sruggles to get a game, K Lee is now a bit part player, Bannan still plays, FF is a bit part player. Monk probably senses their power is on the wane and he can win a battle of wills. Most will back down, Hutch and Westwood might not. The newer players will need to step up but the situation will change dramatically in the summer so Monk will have stamped his authority on the team by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Always been an advocate of playing your strongest side ,and sorting anything else away from the pitch ,that said any who are worth their salt would put the effort in on matchday ,If they don't then they should not play 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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