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Frozen out players.


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The way people defend these two is scary 

 

'Fantastic servant' cringest phrase on here 

 

You'd think they'd won champions league ,world cup and league title way people brag about them 

 

What have they achieved here?

 

Topped up their pension and they have form for been mardy

 

Get rid of both in summer ,and use wages on players who want to play and earn their wages

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16 minutes ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

Instead of quoting Pep and Toure why not mention Ferguson and Stam, or anybody else who crossed him.

If all situations were the same, we wouldn't need managers, HR could deal with it.

 

I might have been to afew Citeh games :ph34r:

 

Think I've spoiled football for myself though, seeing the amount of abuse Raheem Sterling gets, even from their own fans.

 

They talk him down like he's a league 2 player and hurl abuse. Kinda showed me, there's no nirvana in football, bar keeps getting raised until its unattainable. 

Edited by bigash_swfc
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12 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

I'm on a bit of a one tonight.. making a stand.. we've been here before and it does get wearing.

 

It does. 

One small bonus to it all though is that I've been able to retrieve this 'Frozen out' pic from the deleted files. 

 

jos snow.png

 

Thought it was obsolete when Jos left.

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2 minutes ago, WelshOwl74 said:

The way people defend these two is scary 

 

'Fantastic servant' cringest phrase on here 

 

You'd think they'd won champions league ,world cup and league title way people brag about them 

 

What have they achieved here?

 

Topped up their pension and they have form for been mardy

 

Get rid of both in summer ,and use wages on players who want to play and earn their wages

Never mind the hear say bring on the evidence please ?

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7 minutes ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

Knowing as much if not a little more than our manager. GM should welcome their experience, not be afraid of it, take from them whatever he can ! 

 

I don't know.

 

I guess these players who have been here a long time have something in business you would call experience - but no manager coming in really wants to be dictated to.

I'm making an assumption - has Monk (and Jos previously) been dictated to by certain players?   
 

I see terms like "Toxic environment" and I wonder if this is true or not.  

 

I don't think certain managers in our past would have put up with that - but i'm going a long way back.   Atkinson was our last strong manager.    We've not had a true leader since, incuding Francis.

Megson - ok I'll admit he was a strong manager.   But no one else.   Definitely not Jones.

 

Even Yorath and Sturrock I would say succumbed to player rule to a certain extent, and Sturrock was a good man manager in the main.

 

 

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Sometimes working with the same people day in, day out can become frustrating. We’ve seen a lot of players come into the club for the core of the team has remained pretty static around Westwood, Lees, Hutchinson, Bannan and Forestieri. Maybe it has just become a bit stale. Maybe the players are frustrated?

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if certain things have been said in the heat of the moment and now everyone has too much pride/ego to back down. The one person who should not back down, unless he’s made a huge error, is the manager. His word has to be law for discipline to hold. 

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9 minutes ago, WelshOwl74 said:

The way people defend these two is scary 

 

'Fantastic servant' cringest phrase on here 

 

You'd think they'd won champions league ,world cup and league title way people brag about them 

 

What have they achieved here?

 

Topped up their pension and they have form for been mardy

 

Get rid of both in summer ,and use wages on players who want to play and earn their wages

It comes down to this... does the player in question improve us by playing regardless of prior action?

 

Hutchinson yes

Westwood no 

 

So I’d post hutch and not freeze him out 

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41 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

That's exactly what I'd expect someone who doesn't agree with me to say..try again..

 

Try what again? When you get fed up of people having a differing view to yours - on a forum - then, yeah, obviously you're posting too much. Seems a bit precious of you to have expectations that people will agree with you, and get 'fed up' when they don't.

 

And you've said already that you've decided Hutchinson's not worth the trouble despite knowing neither what he's done or what Monk's done in response. The point is, we just don't know.

 

We've yet to see how this will play out. Should Monk decide to bring Hutchinson back into the fold, will you still feel he's not worthy of the trouble?

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1 minute ago, cowl said:

 

Try what again? When you get fed up of people having a differing view to yours - on a forum - then, yeah, obviously you're posting too much. Seems a bit precious of you to have expectations that people will agree with you, and get 'fed up' when they don't.

 

And you've said already that you've decided Hutchinson's not worth the trouble despite knowing neither what he's done or what Monk's done in response. The point is, we just don't know.

 

We've yet to see how this will play out. Should Monk decide to bring Hutchinson back into the fold, will you still feel he's not worthy of the trouble?

Couple of things.. I can see that you've been on here enough to realise that I'm not precious about people disagreeing with my opinions..lol 

If Monk brings Hutchinson back then he'll have his reasons..me? He can go.

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8 minutes ago, Salmonbones said:

 

I don't know.

 

I guess these players who have been here a long time have something in business you would call experience - but no manager coming in really wants to be dictated to.

I'm making an assumption - has Monk (and Jos previously) been dictated to by certain players?   
 

I see terms like "Toxic environment" and I wonder if this is true or not.  

 

I don't think certain managers in our past would have put up with that - but i'm going a long way back.   Atkinson was our last strong manager.    We've not had a true leader since, incuding Francis.

Megson - ok I'll admit he was a strong manager.   But no one else.   Definitely not Jones.

 

Even Yorath and Sturrock I would say succumbed to player rule to a certain extent, and Sturrock was a good man manager in the main.

 

 

 

So they may or may not have had a spat. GM says he'll do everything to get a win. Putting Joey P in the team over Hutch degrades the team by a fair wedge.

 

If GM can't rise above this he is constantly breaking his own golden rule. 'What is said in the dressing room stays in the dressing room' A rule for one is a rule for all get the reyt players picked.  

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23 minutes ago, WelshOwl74 said:

The way people defend these two is scary 

 

'Fantastic servant' cringest phrase on here 

 

You'd think they'd won champions league ,world cup and league title way people brag about them 

 

What have they achieved here?

 

Topped up their pension and they have form for been mardy

 

Get rid of both in summer ,and use wages on players who want to play and earn their wages


The way people assume they know what has or hasn’t gone on is more scary 

 

Edited by Guest
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2 minutes ago, Royal_D said:


The way people assume they know what has or hasn’t gone on is more scary 

Why do you think he was training with the U23s when we were short in midfield?

You're going to say you don't know so you're not going to speculate..fair enough..but if you want to silence the likes of me (which you're trying to do) then I'd give you some credence if you had a plausible explanation for why that occurred..

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14 minutes ago, Dutch McLovin said:

It comes down to this... does the player in question improve us by playing regardless of prior action?

 

Hutchinson yes

Westwood no 

 

So I’d post hutch and not freeze him out 

Not really. Sometimes a player can be fantastic but if he's disruptive he can be so toxic to team cohesion that the team is actually better as a whole without him. Usually there are some backing the disruptive player and some not. Usually the ones backing the player are his mates, in this case they are likely to be other long standing players. You can almost guarantee that there are some of the newer players who have crossed swords with this group before.

 

In our case the older established players have lost a lot of influence, Westwood losing out to Dawson, Lees sruggles to get a game, K Lee is now a bit part player, Bannan still plays, FF is a bit part player. Monk probably senses their power is on the wane and he can win a battle of wills. Most will back down, Hutch and Westwood might not.

 

The newer players will need to step up but the situation will change dramatically in the summer so Monk will have stamped his authority on the team by then.

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