Frozen out players.

[BowOwl]

Pretty simple, we've seen the other approaches.

Carlos - was happy to pick favourites regardless of attitude, great for a season but then bottled it. Once it was clear he had favourites, he couldn't recover (along with tactics to suit them)

Bullen - Picks favourites & friends, as above. Immediate one off they are happy, but never could last.

Jos - Froze out the wrong'ns without being clear why, happy to let youth take their place. In theory the right option, sadly we don't have the squad depth for that and it really showed. We just didn't have the patience for this, and was too dangerous with relegation a possibilty. If we were already in league 1 with 3 years building would have worked I think.

Monk - Hasn't written them off that we know of, but certainly won't give players places just due to ability. And happily to vocally call them out. Could go any direction but he has proved he has ability to manage in this league, which might buy him the time Jos wouldn't get.

[S36 OWL]

1 hour ago, Beholder said:

Is this good for a squad?

 

Is it right to label some players as toxic, or bad apples?

 

Is out of sight out of mind really a thing? 

 

Especially when those in question are such strong characters. 

 

The manager has to run the dressing room, not the players. 

[Costello 77]

If you remember? Brentford? away when we needed a result and Hutchinson let their lad run past him then yanked him down for a pen..he was subbed and out of favour...the moustache gesture..he never scores or assists.. because he lunges in the fans love him tho.

[Ante's Bubbly]

1 hour ago, SiJ said:

Can't have senior players going out of their way to undermine a manager, let alone two of them. 

 

What kind of message does it set within the dressing room if that sort of thing is tolerated? 

 

Bloody inmates running the asylum. 

 

Yeah it's bad enough when fans want to undermine the manager, imagine what it's like when a player known for making more c0ck ups than winning medals is giving you stick or telling you he knows best! I even hate seeing players fighting for the ball when a penalty is given. Remember the incident with Coke when he was out on loan? Still makes me shudder that one! 

 

With corners, free kicks and penalties, everybody in the team knows who is down to take them and they only ever back down if somebody else steps up with loads of character and is full of confidence, when they aren't, or play the alpha male and face them down. Unfortunately those kind of players are never frightened to step up, or state their case, and often think that they are much better than they are! 

[cowl]

3 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

If you remember? Brentford? away when we needed a result and Hutchinson let their lad run past him then yanked him down for a pen..he was subbed and out of favour...the moustache gesture..he never scores or assists.. because he lunges in the fans love him tho.

 

Yeah, sure, that's the only reason the fans rate him.

[Costello 77]

Just now, cowl said:

 

Yeah, sure, that's the only reason the fans rate him.

Yeah..bit fly on my part but if we had better than JP nobody would care what he's up to imo..

[Guest wilyfox]

Don't even know what they've supposedly done, so impossible to argue for or against. Just have to trust Monk. 

[William 1867]

If its a choice between Hutch and Pelupessy then Hutch all the way. If Monk hasn't got the man management skills to deal with any situation then hes not the man for the job at SWFC.

Bruce never had this problem with the 2 players in question.

[Ante's Bubbly]

1 minute ago, cowl said:

 

Yeah, sure, that's the only reason the fans rate him.

 

Hey I love his character and can even look back at some of his crazy tackles and smile now, but when he is conceding needless free kicks in dangerous areas, just because he was out of position, loses control, takes a bad touch, or is not switched on to where the danger lies, i am not his biggest fan then and when he plays in midfield he makes those mistakes too often. I have no idea why we have persevered with him there for so many years! When he plays in a centre half spot, he doesn't make as many mistakes, concede as many free kicks, get booked as often, or have to run about as much and we benefit more from his long passes. If we play him as a centre half we can find out whether he is worth keeping for another season or two, but at the moment I would say that his days are numbered and showing no respect for the manager is the last straw for me. Once a player starts doing that the rot can set in and sometimes there is no way back unless the manager stamps it out hard and makes an example of the gobby rebel, or rebels. Nobody minds constructive criticism, but undermining the man in charge is a no go area in my book. Lack of respect for team mates, fans and officials shows lack of quality and character. Unfortunately it is too rife in football.   

[jonnyowl]

Hutchinson will be a real miss to the side, best midfielder we've had this season!

[jonnyowl]

7 minutes ago, Terryowl said:

If its a choice between Hutch and Pelupessy then Hutch all the way. If Monk hasn't got the man management skills to deal with any situation then hes not the man for the job at SWFC.

Bruce never had this problem with the 2 players in question.

How many times have we heard managers or players say there crap on the training field but put in performances on a saturday.

 

It's how you manage the individual not the group.

 

 

[SiJ]

They've fallen out with two managers now - Jos and Monk. 

 

How does the saying go? 

 

Fool me once, fool me twice...

[Ante's Bubbly]

1 minute ago, jonnyowl said:

Hutchinson will be a real miss to the side, best midfielder we've had this season!

 

In your opinion of our midfielders maybe, but he is not our best midfielder in terms of effectiveness and if it's a throw up between him and Monk then I am going to back Monk for this one because we all know without any doubt whatsoever that Hutch is not the right person to have around when the going gets nasty.

 

Hutch has fallen out with three managers, with Carlos, Jos and now Garry Monk, not a very good thing to do as part of a team when the manger is boss. His contribution to the team can be immense when we need that kind of play to shake up the opposition, but it is a very fine line to walk and Hutch makes challenges that are completely unnecessary and even have kids wondering why he is doing what he does! He has probably got us out of a lot of scrapes, but he has also let us down on plenty of occasions in the past. I cannot see him staying beyond the summer unless he learns some discipline and sticks to the plan that everybody else in the team is trying to follow. Unfortunately it is easier to get rid of managers than it is to get rid of players but in the summer I really hope that DC backs a proper change of personnel. It will be sad to see Hutch go, but he is never going to be the player that we really need right now to take us forward, mainly because he is rarely there to be depended on, for whatever reason.

[adelphi1867]

Football is about TEAM WORK, not the individual.

Hutch and Westwood are the past, no glory there, while Pellupess,  Louongo , and Dawson are the future.

It's the manager who gets it in the neck when it goes wrong, never the player's.

[matthefish2002]

Hutchinson has been a good player overall for us when he has played.
But getting bored of the constant injuries, seems for whatever reason he has fallen out with Monk.
In those situations you have to back the manager, time for him to move on.

 

 

[matthefish2002]

1 minute ago, adelphi1867 said:

Football is about TEAM WORK, not the individual.

Hutch and Westwood are the past, no glory there, while Pellupess,  Louongo , and Dawson are the future.

It's the manager who gets it in the neck when it goes wrong, never the player's.

 

If Pelupessy is the future than the future is League One.

[Bannofan]

41 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

If you remember? Brentford? away when we needed a result and Hutchinson let their lad run past him then yanked him down for a pen..he was subbed and out of favour...the moustache gesture..he never scores or assists.. because he lunges in the fans love him tho.

 

Reda Johnson syndrome.

 

 

 

 

 

[William 1867]

5 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

Football is about TEAM WORK, not the individual.

Hutch and Westwood are the past, no glory there, while Pellupess,  Louongo , and Dawson are the future.

It's the manager who gets it in the neck when it goes wrong, never the player's.

Pelupessy the future, your having a laugh.

[dewsburyowl58]

44 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

If you remember? Brentford? away when we needed a result and Hutchinson let their lad run past him then yanked him down for a pen..he was subbed and out of favour...the moustache gesture..he never scores or assists.. because he lunges in the fans love him tho.

What exactly are you suggesting ? Let a player run past him ? Really ? 

[cowl]

2 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

In your opinion of our midfielders maybe, but he is not our best midfielder in terms of effectiveness and if it's a throw up between him and Monk then I am going to back Monk for this one because we all know without any doubt whatsoever that Hutch is not the right person to have around when the going gets nasty.

 

Hutch has fallen out with three managers, with Carlos, Jos and now Garry Monk, not a very good thing to do as part of a team when the manger is boss. His contribution to the team can be immense when we need that kind of play to shake up the opposition, but it is a very fine line to walk and Hutch makes challenges that are completely unnecessary and even have kids wondering why he is doing what he does! He has probably got us out of a lot of scrapes, but he has also let us down on plenty of occasions in the past. I cannot see him staying beyond the summer unless he learns some discipline and sticks to the plan that everybody else in the team is trying to follow. Unfortunately it is easier to get rid of managers than it is to get rid of players but in the summer I really hope that DC backs a proper change of personnel. It will be sad to see Hutch go, but he is never going to be the player that we really need right now to take us forward, mainly because he is rarely there to be depended on, for whatever reason.

 

I don't remember him falling out with CC.

 

And I'm also not sure how many of our fans would be of the view that “without any doubt whatsoever Hutch is not the right person to have around when the going gets nasty.”

 

Also, fitness wise, he's been good this season as he's only missed one game due to injury - far more reliable than Luongo is proving to be, for example.