Surely Untenable Now

[WorrallOwl17]

He has to go now surely? The decisions he makes are absolutely baffling regardless of injuries. Here are my gripes and probably everyone else's too...

- If you don't have enough centre backs to play 2 of them together in a back 4, how on gods green earth can you find 3 of them to play in a 3-5-2? A 3-5-2 is for a team with 3 good centre backs, maybe 1 full back at a push playing there (Walker, Azpilicueta) do it very well but we don't have players anywhere near that quality, so how can a manager stick with a formation that requires 3 centre backs when we'd be hard pushed to find 2  to play in a back 4? Dunkley and Palmer would have sufficed as a centre back partnership in a 4 and allowed us to play someone else higher up the park in a natural position. Surely if a wide left player (Johnson) or an attacking player (Paterson) are having to play in a 3 to make up the numbers, that's surely alarm bells that the formation should be ditched?

 

- Wing backs. These are specialist positions that more often than not are full backs moulded into wing backs, asked to play 20 yards higher up but to remember their full back traits. Wingers shoe horned into this role is criminal, their mindset is to attack and to get crosses in and to cause problems in the final third to the opposition full back, their mindset isn't to think about attaching themselves to the left and right sided centre backs and to worry about the opponents wingers. Playing Theo there is damaging a lad who is young in the game and is a recognised out and out winger, the same with Shodipo who starred for Oxford last season as a winger. Then yesterday we've also seen Denis been pushed out there. 

 

- Surely the formation needs to be built around what players he has at his disposal, one or two players out of position isn't the end of the world, Paterson could have done a job at right back in a back 4 i'm sure, with Dunkley/Brennan/Palmer making a centre half partnership, but sticking with the 3 means players are out of position at centre back and at wing back. 

 

It is so disjointed and unbalanced, when Moore himself say's the team is erm, unbalanced, and it's his chuffing team selection, then what does that say really? He knows himself the team he is picking is unbalanced and he sticks with it. I genuinely feel sorry for every player who is been asked to play out of position. Poor Sow and Theo coming in as wingers and having to focus on work as a wing back, baffling.

 

Time to go

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, NOT jack whitham said:

So we keep doing it till we get it right.

 

But what if doing it this way is creating the situation where we can’t or won’t succeed?

[mcmigo]

We have lost 3 out of 17 league games and not lost in the league since Oxford.  We are a couple of points outside the play offs and progressing in a tournament - Papa Johns - we have a chance of winning unlike the FA cup.

 

If you take out the game last night - which as I said on the matchday thread was a game that it was fine to lose - we are slowly improving this season.  We would be mad to fire yet another manager now, albeit we usually fire managers for losing too many league games and that never works, so why not fire a manager who doesn't lose league games for a change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WorrallOwl17]

Just now, mcmigo said:

We have lost 3 out of 17 league games and not lost in the league since Oxford.  We are a couple of points outside the play offs and progressing in a tournament - Papa Johns - we have a chance of winning unlike the FA cup.

 

If you take out the game last night - which as I said on the matchday thread was a game that it was fine to lose - we are slowly improving this season.  We would be mad to fire yet another manager now, albeit we usually fire managers for losing too many league games and that never works, so why not fire a manager who doesn't lose league games for a change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

we have also won just 2 games in the league since Oxford, if we carry on to win 2 in 7 we will only win another 8  games all season. Drawing against teams like Shrewsbury, Wimbledon, Cheltenham, Gillingham, Cambridge isn't really acceptable is it? I'd be less miffed if we was dominating games and just unlucky, but apart from Sunderland we haven't dominated any game of football in the last 2 months. The draws against the above teams weren't games we deserved to win. 

[WalthamOwl]

It should be but he won’t go. Things will have to get a lot worse before Chansiri pulls his finger out and fires his mate. 

[Animis]

Moore was a defender, and as a manager he's ultra-cautious.

 

It doesn't sit well with the fans when you're sat there watching another game unravel to two or three predictable outcomes. I'm afraid he's either deluded and determine to be proven right on his ridiculous obsession about the formation and personnel playing in the positions, which generally aren't their natural ones; or he's no idea. Either way he shouldn't be in charge of this great club, as we can all see where this will end up - boring, negative 55 point total by the end of the season.

 

Most people will have given up by then - in fact looking around the stadium on match days, it looks like a few thousand ST holders already have.

[mcmigo]

1 minute ago, WorrallOwl17 said:

we have also won just 2 games in the league since Oxford, if we carry on to win 2 in 7 we will only win another 8  games all season. Drawing against teams like Shrewsbury, Wimbledon, Cheltenham, Gillingham, Cambridge isn't really acceptable is it? I'd be less miffed if we was dominating games and just unlucky, but apart from Sunderland we haven't dominated any game of football in the last 2 months. The draws against the above teams weren't games we deserved to win. 

We are trying to transition the team to a different way of playing.  It wont come overnight but it is the right thing to do.  Until we have quicker forward players we can't be the team we can be and dominate teams.  Windass, plus January, needs to fix that.  

 

We need to stick at it.  It is early days.

 

 

[WorrallOwl17]

3 minutes ago, mcmigo said:

We are trying to transition the team to a different way of playing.  It wont come overnight but it is the right thing to do.  Until we have quicker forward players we can't be the team we can be and dominate teams.  Windass, plus January, needs to fix that.  

 

We need to stick at it.  It is early days.

 

 

no but we're 17 games into the season? that's hardly over night? and the 3-5-2 has been for at least 8 games, that's not over night either

[scilly owl]

10 hours ago, CircleSeven said:

Getting battered by a good Plymouth side is a surprise to no one. They are streets ahead of us. What’s killing us is our performances against the mediocre sides. We can’t beat them either! If we don’t take seven points from the next three league games we are going to start to seriously drift away from top six. If we aren’t top six at Christmas I expect Moore to get sacked. As things are right now I can’t see us improving unless the returning players make a difference. 
 

I don’t believe they will though. Moore will he’s sacked just before the Jan window.

Performances against mediocre sides !!!

What do you consider us to be ?

We are aspiring to become mediocre.

[TrickyTrev]

Callum Paterson at centre back though.

[TrickyTrev]

17 minutes ago, mcmigo said:

We would be mad to fire yet another manager now, albeit we usually fire managers for losing too many league games and that never works, so why not fire a manager who doesn't lose league games for a change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps we could try firing a manager who doesn’t win league games?

[TodwickOwl]

17 minutes ago, WorrallOwl17 said:

He has to go now surely? The decisions he makes are absolutely baffling regardless of injuries. Here are my gripes and probably everyone else's too...

- If you don't have enough centre backs to play 2 of them together in a back 4, how on gods green earth can you find 3 of them to play in a 3-5-2? A 3-5-2 is for a team with 3 good centre backs, maybe 1 full back at a push playing there (Walker, Azpilicueta) do it very well but we don't have players anywhere near that quality, so how can a manager stick with a formation that requires 3 centre backs when we'd be hard pushed to find 2  to play in a back 4? Dunkley and Palmer would have sufficed as a centre back partnership in a 4 and allowed us to play someone else higher up the park in a natural position. Surely if a wide left player (Johnson) or an attacking player (Paterson) are having to play in a 3 to make up the numbers, that's surely alarm bells that the formation should be ditched?

 

- Wing backs. These are specialist positions that more often than not are full backs moulded into wing backs, asked to play 20 yards higher up but to remember their full back traits. Wingers shoe horned into this role is criminal, their mindset is to attack and to get crosses in and to cause problems in the final third to the opposition full back, their mindset isn't to think about attaching themselves to the left and right sided centre backs and to worry about the opponents wingers. Playing Theo there is damaging a lad who is young in the game and is a recognised out and out winger, the same with Shodipo who starred for Oxford last season as a winger. Then yesterday we've also seen Denis been pushed out there. 

 

- Surely the formation needs to be built around what players he has at his disposal, one or two players out of position isn't the end of the world, Paterson could have done a job at right back in a back 4 i'm sure, with Dunkley/Brennan/Palmer making a centre half partnership, but sticking with the 3 means players are out of position at centre back and at wing back. 

 

It is so disjointed and unbalanced, when Moore himself say's the team is erm, unbalanced, and it's his chuffing team selection, then what does that say really? He knows himself the team he is picking is unbalanced and he sticks with it. I genuinely feel sorry for every player who is been asked to play out of position. Poor Sow and Theo coming in as wingers and having to focus on work as a wing back, baffling.

 

Time to go

 

Absolutely bang on the money. I've just posted this in a previous thread myself saying we need to go to a back 4, I'd revert to: 

 

BPF

Pato Dunkley Palmer Brown 

Luongo

Bannan FDB 

Corbeanu Kamberi Shodipo 

 

I'd have been tempted to go with 442 but there is no chance he'll play that formation and we don't have anyone suitable to support Kamberi with 2 up top right now with Pato back in defence (I wouldnt play Berahino again - useless). 

[Quickly Kevin]

10 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Worse than Jos?

 

Yes and Irvine at his peak.

 

I know we are stuck with Chansiri who has ruined the club, but stick with Moore and its a lower mid end finish with baffling team selections and tactics.

 

We can't stop debating and critiquing players and managers.

[Roy Of The Roasters]

21 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

But what if doing it this way is creating the situation where we can’t or won’t succeed?

 

What's that saying about the definition of madness? Doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different outcome?

 

We've got through 5 managers, plus a couple of caretakers, in 5 and a bit seasons. We haven't exactly progressed in that time, to put it mildly. Luhaky, Monk, Pulis - all condemned on these pages. We were assured, they were all "clueless". We were assured that "anyone could do a better job". We were assured that there were better candidates who wanted the job. And we got our wish. And nothing, in fact, got any better.

 

So maybe the manager isn't the problem. Maybe anyone taking the job is going to struggle with the s***show this club has become. And maybe the job has become such a poisoned chalice that no attractive candidate would touch us with a bargepole.

[Roy Of The Roasters]

20 minutes ago, WorrallOwl17 said:

no but we're 17 games into the season? that's hardly over night?

 

And it's hardly long term either. Considering our decline in recent seasons and multitude of problems, fixing us is probably going to be a 2-3 season job.

[FreshOwl]

The chairman isn’t bothered enough to sack him, so sadly we are stuck with this useless manager. 

[Big Jack]

10 hours ago, Glenn59 said:

After another limp performance Moore has to go.

 

Yet again more baffling decisions, tactics [if there are any] and the usual performance.

 

Up to now our season peaked against Sunderland which did nothing else but paper over the cracks for a few days. And we are now back to normal.

 

Tonight showed just how far adrift of automatic promotion, and a couple of defeats will start to see the play offs waving goodbye as they tootle off over the horizon and into the setting sun.

 

We all thought this season would be good  with a new manager[ish], new players and a new aim.

Moore has shown he has no Plan A never mind Plan B. This far into the season no settled side, no tactics and also the inability to change things for the better during a match.

 

It would seem the players maybe lost faith in him, being chopped and changed, not knowing where they'll be playing, if playing at all. No settled side to build up understandings between players. This leaves on loan players possibly wanting to return to their parent clubs to get a better loan for the second half of the season. 

 

People compare him to Jos, well in the defence of Jos, he could only make one signing, also he had no experience of English football either. Moore has brought in some 14 players and has managed in 3 divisions as well mas playing his career here, which makes him worse than Jos. His interviews are flat, uninspiring and leave you wondering just what goes on between his ears? Maybe he thinks God will save the season?

 

Chansiri needs to remove him and the backroom staff asap if there is any hope of salvaging anything from the season.

 

Not sure what options would come but surely the club cannot go on much longer like this.

Until we completely restructure the club from top to bottom, we will continue on a cycle of sacking managers. Plymouth are an example of this and that is why Ryan Lowe is doing well. Sacking the manager alone will only produce the same out come, that we have witnessed for too many years.

[Daizan10]

So, after a meaningless game in a cup we weren't going anywhere in, its become untenable? If its untenable now, it was untenable before. But we are 8th and we look to be improving in the league - so its not untenable. We all feel bad cos we lost... some people just need to learn to regulate their emotions... 

[beswetherick]

8 minutes ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

What's that saying about the definition of madness? Doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different outcome?

To be fair, you could also say the same thing about Moore’s tactics… I agree we need to give the right manager time, but I’m seeing nothing on the pitch to suggest Moore is that manager, and he doesn’t have a track record of success either. 
 

Like the Plymouth fan said in the other thread, they’d take most of our players over theirs - and they’re top of the league. You can have a kitchen full of lovely ingredients but you need a good chef to turn them into a nice plate of food

[SwellOwl]

I am at the point where I am so used to the form of this football club, that actually, just let Moore have a season to implement the changes he's trying to achieve.

 

However, Paterson at CB will never be a good idea.