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Surely Untenable Now


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Before the season started most people on here, the sane ones anyway, were saying they would be satisfied/expect us to be midtable or a few points outside the playoffs by Xmas.

 

They said it would take a while for Darren Moore to get the side and tactics right. That we should be patient and expect a decent end to the season, maybe a late push for the playoffs.

 

So, we are pretty much where we expected us to be. 

 

Sure the performances and tactics have been erratic, but we are ticking along.

 

We need to give him time. I don't like losing and I don't like watching tripe. But we need to think back to the summer and our expectations and not overreact after every defeat/draw.

 

I'm as guilty of it as much as anyone else, but with my sensible head on...I can see we need to give the guy time.

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It’s all pointless because the chairman doesn’t care. It’s not like fans can protest as he hasn’t been in the country for over 18 months!

 

We will never have success under DC. We will meander around in L1 and probably end up with more financial issues with the EFL. 
 

DC is the only owner that has taken the emotion out of supporting Wednesday. Half the time I don’t give a damn anymore and that’s just not right. 
 

I want a team that gives the fans something to believe in and an owner that has a clear vision for success and growth as a club. We are just a zombie club under DC. 

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11 hours ago, @owlstalk said:



SACK THE MANAGER

 

SACK THE COACHING STAFF

 

SACK THE MEDICAL TEAM AND PHYSIOS

 

SACK THE CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER AND ALL HIS TEAM 

 

AND WITH THE PLAYERS HAVE A PROPER CLEEEEAR AHHHHHT AND GET RID OF T’LOT OF EM

 

I mean we have a terriffic success rate of this in recent years I’m 100% totally convinced it’ll work this time 

Come on. Sixteen managers in 22 seasons and three relegations to the third tier - it’s a proven formula. 

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11 hours ago, horny owl said:

Seen loads of managers at this club but Moore is the worst of the lot

 

He’d better be gone by Saturday the useless tw@t

The worst I remember was Eustace. He was sacked fairly quickly and replaced with Big Ron. If Carlsberg did memories i'd have another one of those. But yeah Moore is Number 2 on the list.

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34 minutes ago, Asio otus said:

Until we completely restructure the club from top to bottom, we will continue on a cycle of sacking managers. Plymouth are an example of this and that is why Ryan Lowe is doing well. Sacking the manager alone will only produce the same out come, that we have witnessed for too many years.

Out of interest what would you restructure?

 

Often when fans have said this, it starts and ends with ' hire a director of football' and 'change the philosophy' including getting the under 8's playing tica taka.  

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5 minutes ago, Cockers said:

Come on. Sixteen managers in 22 seasons and three relegations to the third tier - it’s a proven formula. 

These people don't care about things like that..., Pfft, facts - its all about how they feel. Emotions are now more valid than facts, and most of our fans seem unable to control theirs. 

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2 minutes ago, mcmigo said:

Out of interest what would you restructure?

 

Often when fans have said this, it starts and ends with ' hire a director of football' and 'change the philosophy' including getting the under 8's playing tica taka.  

Moore has been allowed to become manager and director of football driving a change of culture. Problem is it all falls apart if he departs - which is the point in a proper director of football. Chansiri is too much of a clown to see this benefit, so we will continue to lurch from one persons ideas to another. 

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1 minute ago, mcmigo said:

Out of interest what would you restructure?

 

Often when fans have said this, it starts and ends with ' hire a director of football' and 'change the philosophy' including getting the under 8's playing tica taka.  

Chief executive who has experience of running a football club, would be first step.

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6 minutes ago, beswetherick said:


To be fair, you could also say the same thing about Moore’s tactics…

 

Isn't the complaint about DMs tactics that he keeps doing different things? Or have I misunderstood?? 😊

 

6 minutes ago, beswetherick said:


I agree we need to give the right manager time, but I’m seeing nothing on the pitch to suggest Moore is that manager, and he doesn’t have a track record of success either. 

 

 

Would we ever give a manager time, though? Because collectively, we have a huge sense of entitlement, very high expectations, and little patience. Unless they / the team start performing very quickly, they would be written off like Moore and many of his recent predecessors. Track record of success? Every manager starts their career without a track record of success. Moore is a young manager and this is just his 3rd job.

 

7 minutes ago, beswetherick said:

 

Like the Plymouth fan said in the other thread, they’d take most of our players over theirs - and they’re top of the league. You can have a kitchen full of lovely ingredients but you need a good chef to turn them into a nice plate of food

 

A couple of points here. Firstly, from what I'm hearing of Plymouth, they are one of those clubs who are well run and have a willingness to embrace modern ways of doing things. Ryan Lowe may be a rising star, but as a Plymouth fan noted recently, he has the backing of an extensive back room staff of researchers and analysts. That's down to an owner who is smart and forward thinking. We just don't have that, and sacking the manager won't change that situation.

 

Secondly, Ryan Lowe himself. Plymouth recruited him from Bury. Would our fans have accepted that? Personally I'm all in favour of a young, hungry, lower league manager, but I get the feeling that wouldn't be acceptable to a large proportion of our fanbase who seem to demand a "big name" with a "big reputation". I've lost count over the years in the innumerable 'next manager' discussions of the up and coming lower league managers who were dismissed as "not good enough for us".

 

Finally, it's encouraging that we're seen as having a decent squad. How many of those were persuaded to come here by Darren Moore?

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1 hour ago, mcmigo said:

We have lost 3 out of 17 league games and not lost in the league since Oxford.  We are a couple of points outside the play offs and progressing in a tournament - Papa Johns - we have a chance of winning unlike the FA cup.

 

If you take out the game last night - which as I said on the matchday thread was a game that it was fine to lose - we are slowly improving this season.  We would be mad to fire yet another manager now, albeit we usually fire managers for losing too many league games and that never works, so why not fire a manager who doesn't lose league games for a change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I read one of your posts the other day, where you said you run a company with a fairly large number of employees. Sorry it that’s not accurate. 
 

If your business meetings, management briefings etc were as inept, boring and downright confusing as Darren Moore's statements to the press and by association, one assumes his tactical briefings are - do you think that your company directors and/or shareholders would retain their faith in you to run the company? 

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25 minutes ago, Daizan10 said:

These people don't care about things like that..., Pfft, facts - its all about how they feel. Emotions are now more valid than facts, and most of our fans seem unable to control theirs. 

Nothing worse than fickle and thick football fans.

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30 minutes ago, trev said:

Before the season started most people on here, the sane ones anyway, were saying they would be satisfied/expect us to be midtable or a few points outside the playoffs by Xmas.

 

They said it would take a while for Darren Moore to get the side and tactics right. That we should be patient and expect a decent end to the season, maybe a late push for the playoffs.

 

So, we are pretty much where we expected us to be. 

 

Sure the performances and tactics have been erratic, but we are ticking along.

 

We need to give him time. I don't like losing and I don't like watching tripe. But we need to think back to the summer and our expectations and not overreact after every defeat/draw.

 

I'm as guilty of it as much as anyone else, but with my sensible head on...I can see we need to give the guy time.

 

I made this point in another thread a while ago. Over the summer most of us felt mid table, a year of consolidation etc was most likely. 

A few doom mongerers expected back to back relegations; the most optimistic thought a decent stab at the play offs. 

Fact is we are where we thought we'd be.

 

However, the clock is ticking and the lack of progression and the increase in alarms bells are both bad news for DM. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

Isn't the complaint about DMs tactics that he keeps doing different things? Or have I misunderstood?? 😊

 

 

Would we ever give a manager time, though? Because collectively, we have a huge sense of entitlement, very high expectations, and little patience. Unless they / the team start performing very quickly, they would be written off like Moore and many of his recent predecessors. Track record of success? Every manager starts their career without a track record of success. Moore is a young manager and this is just his 3rd job.

 

 

A couple of points here. Firstly, from what I'm hearing of Plymouth, they are one of those clubs who are well run and have a willingness to embrace modern ways of doing things. Ryan Lowe may be a rising star, but as a Plymouth fan noted recently, he has the backing of an extensive back room staff of researchers and analysts. That's down to an owner who is smart and forward thinking. We just don't have that, and sacking the manager won't change that situation.

 

Secondly, Ryan Lowe himself. Plymouth recruited him from Bury. Would our fans have accepted that? Personally I'm all in favour of a young, hungry, lower league manager, but I get the feeling that wouldn't be acceptable to a large proportion of our fanbase who seem to demand a "big name" with a "big reputation". I've lost count over the years in the innumerable 'next manager' discussions of the up and coming lower league managers who were dismissed as "not good enough for us".

 

Finally, it's encouraging that we're seen as having a decent squad. How many of those were persuaded to come here by Darren Moore?


Good post, cheers. On the track record of success… it’s more to give us as fans and also the players a sense of reassurance that there’s method in the madness. If a manager has been there and done it, they can defend their decisions by saying they know what it takes to achieve success, even if that’s at L2 or non-league level. I accept that’s difficult for a young manager like Moore, but as you say, this is his third job and he is yet to do anything of note as a coach.
 

Inevitable Lowe comparison as he and Moore both started managing in the same season, albeit at different levels - Lowe won promotion from L2 in his first job at Bury, then did it again the following season with Plymouth, and he looks like he’s on track for a third promotion now from L1. If he sticks a centre forward or a winger at centre half, he can quite rightly point to his achievements as proof that he knows what he’s doing.
 

I completely agree that the way DC runs the club has a huge part to play - your comparison with Plymouth and their infrastructure is spot on - and his lack of expertise means any success a manager has here feels like it’s gonna be by chance rather than by design. The whole thing’s a mess - I was optimistic for this season after the business we did over summer, which Moore apparently had a big part in, but he’s just not getting anywhere near the most out of what he has at his disposal. As you say though, our track record of replacing managers is awful, so as bad as things are, there’s no guarantee his replacement will fare any better. I’m still not sure that’s enough reason to keep someone so clearly out of their depth though - it feels like we’re just treading water right now and delaying the inevitable while any hopes of promotion become more and more distant

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43 minutes ago, Rotherham Owl said:

image.png.2adc0b96335c00eb3aa1472fb7bb1fe4.png

 

Moore is the best "permanent" manager we have had since Carlos, not as good as either of the the caretaker managers though.

 

Not sure those stats are right? Can only see 9 wins for Moore. 3 in Championship and 6 in League 1. 

 

Quick count and maybe wrong, but I see 31 games, 9 wins, 12 draws so 39 points and 1.26 points per game

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2 hours ago, scilly owl said:

Performances against mediocre sides !!!

What do you consider us to be ?

We are aspiring to become mediocre.

Fair point. But in the main we have performed better against sides above us than those below us. Our league position shows us for what we are- bang average. But if we don’t have the potential to be better why do we have flashes of good play and better results against the better teams? If we were just garbage with garbage players we would probably accept things. But we are underperforming. 

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