Blue and white Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 minute ago, SiJ said: If he had no money we wouldn't still be paying all staff and player wages, plus hiring three new coaching staff. Not saying he's goimg to spend loads, but enough to fill the gaps. I'm not saying he hasn't got a penny or enough to fill the gaps but he isn't the cash cow some people believe he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morepork Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 In the context that Monk is staying then this has to be good news. As I’ve said previously he’s going to be under pressure immediately so it’s only fair he has support. I still worry that he’s starting with none of the momentum that comes from a new appointment. Not to mention negative points. If DC has got this wrong we could easily be in a position before the end of the year where he’s forced to act. The decisions have been made, astute recruitment is now key. I can only speak for myself but I see what happens next is a last role of the dice in terms of DC’s stewardship. We simply must make some positive progress on and off the field, even small ones. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 31 minutes ago, torryowl said: having appointed someone who's inherited an ageing squad thats done sod all for 2 years ,give him no money to spend and get him to try to reduce the wage bill with a back room squad he probably didnt want .......he deserves a run at it with his own players and staff . How is Monk trying to reduce the wage bill? The contracts have nothing to do with him. Unless you are referring to the savings made on not having to pay win bonuses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 33 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: To be honest, I don't put too much emphasis on supporters (or even former professionals) talking about tactics, substitutions, methodologies and motivations. Football is a game of infinite variables and expecting to be in agreement much of the time with anyone is bordering on the statistically impossible. Once the decision is made that a manager is no good, then prejudice and sometimes even hysteria become factors and all sorts of nonsense is added to that mix. When you hear fans moaning about some of the greatest individuals in the game, often from a position of almost complete ignorance, you really have to step back and question the credibility of it all. Given a comparison of our form before and after Christmas, I find it difficult to believe that there was some simplistic tactical judgement or personnel decision behind that. Maybe it was a number of factors that achieved some kind of critical mass? I know nothing more than anyone else. According to one detailed analysis posted here recently, the balance of our games weren't as bad as results suggested was the case and that under the usual influence of probability we should have done better than we actually did. But overall, I'm ambivalent about Monk. If we get off to a bad start next season (and I don't mean the first 4-5 games), the pressure on his position will justifiably continue to increase. By how many points better were we expected to have done by this critical analysis? I know what I saw wasn't worth watching most of the time. We were abject from Boxing Day to March against the worst sides in the division and not much better when football returned in June. I find it difficult to be ambivalent about the managerial position of the team I support given its importance in any relative success of the club. I suppose you can never be wrong when you have mixed feelings on big issues though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legendaryswan Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 cant believe that DC has watched this season unfold and still wants Monk to lead over Cook. Just goes to prove chansiri has learned nothing at all about english football 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: I suppose you can never be wrong when you have mixed feelings on big issues though. Or if you jump to a conclusion on the basis of incomplete data and your own emotions then you are essentially guaranteeing you will be wrong half of the time. It continues to bemuse me that some people seemingly prefer strong opinions over accurate ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: Or if you jump to a conclusion on the basis of incomplete data and your own emotions then you are essentially guaranteeing you will be wrong half of the time. It continues to bemuse me that some people seemingly prefer strong opinions over accurate ones. How is feeling ambivalent about Monk any more accurate than feeling he is not the right man based on his performance as our a manager to date and his managerial record overall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Just now, hirstyboywonder said: How is feeling ambivalent about Monk any more accurate than feeling he is not the right man based on his performance as our a manager to date and his managerial record overall? I'm not making a judgement about the accuracy of this particular issue as neither of us know at this stage how it will turn out. Rather, I'm making a broader philosophical point about our increasingly binary society and the hostility directed towards those who refuse to see it that way. Is there a precise moment when day becomes night, your neighbour's music becomes too loud or a football manager ceases to be the most effective option for his club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsidney Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 12 hours ago, oldishowl said: Yep If we need to create a siege mentality then the fans are key The lockdown proved fans are meaningless to results. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, kingsidney said: The lockdown proved fans are meaningless to results. Across the major leagues of Europe, there has been a fairly consistent shift from home wins to away wins of something like 6-10%. Also, the average number of goals scored in the first half plummeted in this country after lockdown. Granted, neither of these made much difference to us though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philb125 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 5 hours ago, DJMortimer said: Across the major leagues of Europe, there has been a fairly consistent shift from home wins to away wins of something like 6-10%. Also, the average number of goals scored in the first half plummeted in this country after lockdown. Granted, neither of these made much difference to us though. Please halt with this facts over feelings nonsense. We may be in danger of a serious debate at this rate. Plus the I know what my eyes tell me brigade won’t like it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 7 hours ago, Kagoshimaowl said: Although this is obviously important, it’s additions to the playing staff that I give a poo about. Also makes it much tougher to sack Monk now which is definitely a negative. You never know, maybe miracles will happen and we will improve now he has his coaching team around him. Thing is if we improve from here on in then understandably the point is going to be made that it is largely down to the new coaching staff and not ****? Then the pro-**** camp will turn round and said well it was his choice to bring them in so whichever way you look at it, the opinion that **** is not a very good manager will never be accepted by the pro-**** camp? What I’ll never understand is why virtually 100% of the fan base were ready to accept Lukuhay wasn’t up to it with his horrendous record but not **** with his currently more horrendous record? Anyway he has his staff around him now and I suppose we have to accept that he’s going to be here for the foreseeable future. I hope he proves me wrong but it’s not as if he’s been more more successful in the past with his own staff around him and I don’t see this cloud of criticism that currently hangs over ****’s head disappearing anytime soon? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 What if Monk is equally horrendous, with his star coaching team as he was without it ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls-Fan Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/points-deductions-wilder-and-taking-garry-monks-side-david-wagner-spat-introducing-new-sheffield-wednesday-coach-andrew-hughes-2940666%3famp This is quite interesting, Hughes seems to be a coach that can get leadership out of players and was integral in helping the Leeds side that had the 15 point deduction. Edited August 13, 2020 by Owls-Fan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZicoSterland2 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 8 hours ago, DJMortimer said: Well, no excuses apart from the fact that we're 12 points behind everyone else before the season has even started, have a questionable financial position, only two thirds of a squad, reduced attractiveness for new players with multiple offers, and those we do have aren't very good. So if the new assistant manager takes the credit should we do well, then the logical extension of that thought process is that the last six months must be Bullen's fault? Sadly, this is all too indicative of the modern age. People make their choice, then literally nothing can change their mind. Evidently, they place more value on never backing down, even if the evidence points to completely the opposite conclusion. And it is especially true for football supporters once they turn against a player, or even more so, a manager. Evidence is made to fit the theory rather than the rather more trustworthy method of doing it the other way round. That's not to say I'm filled with hope going into the new season either, but I'm not the one claiming that whether we finish top or bottom, that my predetermined judgement will be correct regardless. There are no excuses he is well paid and has to get on with the job. In the sports world management is a results based position and if you fail to get these then you are replaced. Monk starts this season with a clean slate but his future depends on getting the team to perform. 12 points deduction or not this remit does not change. I hope he turns the corner and gets us back on track but the job is what it is and excuses won't save him if it doesn't work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southie_Owl Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Owls-Fan said: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/points-deductions-wilder-and-taking-garry-monks-side-david-wagner-spat-introducing-new-sheffield-wednesday-coach-andrew-hughes-2940666%3famp This is quite interesting, Hughes seems to be a coach that can get leadership out of players and was integral in helping the Leeds side that had the 15 point deduction. Could turn out to be one of the most important signings, sometimes that happens with clubs and coaching staff. No offence to Bullen and Weaver etc but hopefully we have a better coaching team now. Now the focus is on what players we can persuade to join our fight. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulcinella Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, Jim said: What I’ll never understand is why virtually 100% of the fan base were ready to accept Lukuhay wasn’t up to it with his horrendous record but not **** with his currently more horrendous record? That’s simple. Lukuhay came after our most successful manager in recent times. The contrast between them was chalk and cheese. Monk came in at a time when the Carvahal era of players were: a/ getting too old b/ getting paid too much (causing massive off-field issues) Monk came in at a time we need a rebuild. Lukuhay came in at a time we just needed to a tiny bit more strategy to get promoted. Shame we couldn’t have had a Bruce type at the moment when we could have capitalised. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls-Fan Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said: Could turn out to be one of the most important signings, sometimes that happens with clubs and coaching staff. No offence to Bullen and Weaver etc but hopefully we have a better coaching team now. Now the focus is on what players we can persuade to join our fight. Agree mate even the best managers will rely on the strength of their coaches. As you say we still need to improve the squad but at least we are trying to get things right. Despite the awful results since Christmas Monk must have something about him to keep getting work. today is a fresh start for everyone, let’s see what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwellOwl Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 25 minutes ago, Owls-Fan said: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/points-deductions-wilder-and-taking-garry-monks-side-david-wagner-spat-introducing-new-sheffield-wednesday-coach-andrew-hughes-2940666%3famp This is quite interesting, Hughes seems to be a coach that can get leadership out of players and was integral in helping the Leeds side that had the 15 point deduction. Good article and seems to receive high praise from Managers and ex-players. The squad severely lacks leadership, if he can get a few to lead the line, would be massive step forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Of The Roasters Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, Owls-Fan said: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/points-deductions-wilder-and-taking-garry-monks-side-david-wagner-spat-introducing-new-sheffield-wednesday-coach-andrew-hughes-2940666%3famp This is quite interesting, Hughes seems to be a coach that can get leadership out of players and was integral in helping the Leeds side that had the 15 point deduction. I'd never heard of Andrew Hughes before, but when I first read of the triple appointment he was the one whose name stuck in my mind. His resume is impressive and he comes across as being smart, capable and ambitious. If he's as good as he appears it could be a transformational appointment. I was interested to read that he has ambitions of first team management. One to keep man eye on for the future? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now