@owlstalk Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 Just now, DSandersonOWL said: What does getting behind Monk mean in practice? Until we can get back into the stadiums it means not regurgitating the same old nonsense that we've had to read for the last few months about sacking monk, about "Hutch" and "Westy" etc and understanding that we need a new era under Monk and that he's bringing it Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSandersonOWL Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: Until we can get back into the stadiums it means not regurgitating the same old nonsense that we've had to read for the last few months about sacking monk, about "Hutch" and "Westy" etc and understanding that we need a new era under Monk and that he's bringing it Let's hope he will bring it! Very positive sign today with new staff! Especially that Chansiri is alive and kicking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full fathom five Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, @owlstalk said: Time now for those moaning about Monk to get put your gripes to one side, get behind him, back him, and give it 100% support BOOOOOOOO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: I don't doubt that, just not sure where the idea that Monk was blaming the lack of coaches had come from. As for blaming the players, it's hard not to when you see the way they've performed at times. The harshest I've heard him is after we lost 5-0 to Brentford: “There is a culture here that will never ever be successful. There is not enough desire, determination and strength of character. If you want to be successful, there has to be a determination and a fire that is lit underneath you, not just from the whole group but from individually within. There is not enough of that at this football club. One thing you can never, ever, ever do on a football pitch is hide…today we had players hiding on a football pitch. You need to fight for yourself before anyone else and they are not even doing that.” Having sat through that game, it's hard to disagree with him. There were promising signs of better togetherness following the lockdown, and I don't recall criticising the players during that period. Hopefully we can continue in the right direction and results will follow. More togetherness? Maybe, but the results were just as bad If he had an issue with certain players, fair enough, leave them out if he thinks it makes us stronger. The facts are, it didn’t, we collapsed like a deck of cards, and had the EFL not been so dilatory, and we lost the 12 points, he would have taken us from third at Christmas, to bottom of the pile by the seasons end. That takes some doing, and was ineptitude of the highest order Anywhere else, he would have been sacked. He wasn’t, and he gets another chance to revive our fortunes, and I just hope he learns from his mistakes Edited August 12, 2020 by gurujuan 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZicoSterland2 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: You make it sound like he was weak He was the exact opposite He's kicked ass this last month or so, managed the players, had a clearout, brought in new faces and continues the transition that was very very much needed Banishing players who contribute nothing, cause issues, and think they own the place is a good thing - good riddance to that era Long live the Monk era - exciting times now A manager is judged by results it will be exciting if we win a substantial amount of games and set of well. It wont be exciting if we maintain the form of the last 6 months, it will be desperate. Here's hoping you are right and I truly mean that. Edited August 12, 2020 by ZicoSterland2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, gurujuan said: More togetherness? Maybe, but the results were just as bad If he had an issue with certain players, fair enough, leave them out if he thinks it makes us stronger. The facts are, it didn’t, we collapsed like a deck of cards, and had the EFL not been so dilatory, and we lost the 12 points, he would have taken us from third at Christmas, to bottom of the pile by the seasons end. That takes some doing, and was ineptitude of the highest order Anywhere else, he would have been sacked. He wasn’t, and he gets another chance to revive our fortunes, and I just hope he learns from his mistakes We looked more like a team post-lockdown to me. Unfortunately, our inability to take our chances and a raft of individual errors continued to cost us, which isn't overly surprising when you consider that we have a complete Frankenstein's monster of a squad, with no coherence to it. There's not a single formation or style of play that suits all of our players, and each attempt to address one of our inherent weaknesses simply exposes another one. We actually managed surprisingly well while we had a fully-fit Fletcher up top, but as soon as he was injured and Monk had to try to fashion a strikeforce out of Winnall, Nuhiu and Rhodes, the writing was on the wall. Failing to replace Hooper, João and Matias with a single new striker last summer was criminal, really. But then we didn't employ a manager until the transfer window closed! Take that one example and spread it across a squad that doesn't know if it was built to play long ball, possession football, high-tempo closing down, flying wingers, a solid back four, wingbacks, a target man etc... and it's hard to imagine why any Wednesday honestly thought we'd finish too far above where we ended up last season. The only reason relegation was on the cards is because of the chairman, not the manager. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycraign10others Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 3 hours ago, Jim said: I’m a bit perplexed TBH. He’s got his own staff around him now but it’s not as if them as a team have pulled up any trees wherever they’ve been. Perhaps Beattie has got quite a bit out of the strikers at his disposal in the past so in that sense could be a good addition. Our problems though are at the back and for us to be successful this is the priority to be sorted IMO? I’m laying off **** now as there is no point flogging a dead horse with some on here. I know what I’m expecting but I hope I’m wrong? I’m just totally disillusioned with the club as a whole as a lot of us are at the moment. Read the post below and then see if you still feel the same way. It appears to me this team have done well but not been able to finish the job ******************************************* From. NOTwhatTHEYseem You don't rate the job they did at other clubs, then? For me, they did a good job given the circumstances in which they were working... Swansea were two points above the bottom three when Monk took over from Michael Laudrup. By the end of that season they were 9 points clear and comfortably avoided the drop. The following season, he led Swansea to 8th in the Premier League, missing out on European football by four points. In his final season at Swansea, they were 15th in the Premier league after 15 games, at which point he was sacked. They finished the season in 12th. He then took the reigns of a Leeds side who'd finished 13th the season before and guided them to 7th in the Championship, before resigning at the end of the season. Leeds finished 13th again the following season. Following that, he moved to recently-relegated Middlesbrough and had them sat 9th in the Championship, three points off the top six at the halfway point, before being sacked. Pulis took over and they finished in the top six by three points, before missing out on the playoffs the following season. He then took over at Birmingham City, who were in the bottom three with eleven games to go. They survived the drop by five points. The following season, despite a nine point deduction, he took Birmingham to 17th place, before being sacked. Birmingham finished 17th but with 12 fewer points the following season. I'm not saying he's the next Guardiola, but he's not a bad manager, either. Given the contexts and what he's had to work with, he's done at least a decent job at every club he's managed. Only Leeds have improved since he left, and that took a new chairman, a turnover of more than 40 players, and managerial legend Bielsa's revolution to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookone Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 If Monk is staying, this can only be a positive move and hopefully shows DC is learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: We looked more like a team post-lockdown to me. Unfortunately, our inability to take our chances and a raft of individual errors continued to cost us, which isn't overly surprising when you consider that we have a complete Frankenstein's monster of a squad, with no coherence to it. There's not a single formation or style of play that suits all of our players, and each attempt to address one of our inherent weaknesses simply exposes another one. We actually managed surprisingly well while we had a fully-fit Fletcher up top, but as soon as he was injured and Monk had to try to fashion a strikeforce out of Winnall, Nuhiu and Rhodes, the writing was on the wall. Failing to replace Hooper, João and Matias with a single new striker last summer was criminal, really. But then we didn't employ a manager until the transfer window closed! Take that one example and spread it across a squad that doesn't know if it was built to play long ball, possession football, high-tempo closing down, flying wingers, a solid back four, wingbacks, a target man etc... and it's hard to imagine why any Wednesday honestly thought we'd finish too far above where we ended up last season. The only reason relegation was on the cards is because of the chairman, not the manager. There are truths in your assessment, but I still believe that had we persisted with what Bruce, started, and first Bullen, and then to his credit, Monk, continued, we would have finished much higher in the table. OK, third place somewhat flattered us, but we had a decent shape with Hutchinson shielding the back four. After Christmas Monk started to change things, leaving out Hutchinson, and going more direct. There was an overemphasis on everything going through Fletcher. We did miss him, yes, but we had become too reliant on him anyway. We had the opportunity to change things in the January window, but no temporary replacement was brought in for key man Hutchinson. Wickham, in theory should have been a decent like for like replacement for Fletcher, except he was patently unfit. There were mitigating factors for sure, but the manager clearly didn’t help himself, and his blushes were spared by similar ineptitude from the EFL Edited August 12, 2020 by gurujuan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and white Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 7 hours ago, BARMYARMY2010 said: Never in doubt really was it. Absolutely, I mean why wouldn't you back a manager with 2 wins from 22 games. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARMYARMY2010 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Just now, Blue and white said: Absolutely, I mean why wouldn't you back a manager with 2 wins from 22 games. Oh hey up,here he is,took longer than i thought,but knew you wouldn't be far away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Blue and white said: Absolutely, I mean why wouldn't you back a manager with 2 wins from 22 games. Because you know what happened behind the scenes to cause it Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSandersonOWL Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Just now, Spookone said: If Monk is staying, this can only be a positive move and hopefully shows DC is learning. No-one has the least clue if it is a positive move or not. Results are the only thing that will tell us whether it is positive or negative, Shows nothing new about DC ; he has always hung on to his managers. Maybe this time it will turn out for the good, or not! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, DSandersonOWL said: No-one has the least clue if it is a positive move or not. It's very much a positive move to get a fresh backroom team installed, some new players in, the manager backed and new youngsters brought into the U18's 2 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdan2003 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) I’ve no idea if the 3 additions are good or not. But they’re all experienced people, and we needed fresh additions and new ideas, so for me it’s a positive move. This clearly means Monk is going to be here for the foreseeable future. I understand why folk might not want him, but he’s here, he’s staying and to be fair to him he’s starting to make inroads into clearing things and starting a new culture. Might as well give him a chance. Edited August 12, 2020 by bigdan2003 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and white Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, BARMYARMY2010 said: Oh hey up,here he is,took longer than i thought,but knew you wouldn't be far away. Seriously words fail me. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 13 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Because you know what happened behind the scenes to cause it It's what happens on the pitch that matters. 18pts from 66pts. The buck stops with Monk. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSandersonOWL Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Just now, @owlstalk said: It's very much a positive move to get a fresh backroom team installed, some new players in, the manager backed and new youngsters brought into the U18's Only results will show if keeping Monk is a positive move. Certainly these appointments of staff signal an end to the debate over Monk's immediate future. And we move on - hopefully forward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full fathom five Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 37 minutes ago, ZicoSterland2 said: A manager is judged by results it will be exciting if we win a substantial amount of games and set of well. It wont be exciting if we maintain the form of the last 6 months, it will be desperate. Here's hoping you are right and I truly mean that. He'd better be right or we are really in the brown stuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 minute ago, S36 OWL said: It's what happens on the pitch that matters. 18pts from 66pts. The buck stops with Monk. You literally can't just say 'no matter WHAT happens behind the scenes/off the pitch the manager should always be expected to win regardless' Some things are just out of that sphere of influence no matter how good the manager Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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