Guest mkowl Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 32 minutes ago, Modfather100 said: Agreed but my concern is that I would expect we have done some creative accounting - the issue is that we believe we got that ratified by the EFL prior to doing so. Then there is the over valuation of the ground. So it is these points, aside from the accounting issue - that have an element of judgement to them and I would guess that there is disagreements on the panel as to firstly the level of guilt or innoncence for us on both and then the level of punishment as a result. What I don't know is have they asked the club or EFL for any further evidence or witness statements etc? Thats the thing that I don't get as surely if they had that would have been reported on. They have all the evidence they need so what the bloody hell are they playing at. Is it because they want to wait and administer punishments next season in the Championship for say us, Derby and Villa? So they are waiting all hearings and for Villa to come down and then we all get points depending on how far we've each been on the naughty step? Is it because of covid they have thought it unfair to do it this season? Ir have the panel not even got round to starting to review the case yet because if covid backlogs etc. I suspect it may be the first and they aren't telling us as they dont want the ire of clubs fighting relegation. Once it comes out then Barnsley Hull and Luton will be an easy three to tell to pipe down. See one persons creative accounting is another person's adherence to accounting standards. However it is all about judgement, estimation, evaluation of evidence. You give me and another accountant the same data I bet we come up with slightly different profit figures. Same with the sale of the stadium. Have the risks and rewards of ownership passed from one entity to the other. That is what it says in accounting speak- not that legal completion has happened, that you have the cash in the bank. Contract wise have you sold it. That is the tricky assessment. It is not black and white. How does the EFL say it more right in that judgement than others. I have no idea who is right, can't even make a call on it because I would need the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jack Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, Brissy-owl said: My thoughts exactly, guilty is guilty, we broke the rules so punish us, learn from it and move on Are you on the panel ? What about innocent until proven guilty?? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, Brissy-owl said: My thoughts exactly, guilty is guilty, we broke the rules so punish us, learn from it and move on What rules have we broken because if we haven't accounting wise on the date of sale it is a matter of judgement on the valuation. Unless you have seen both the contract of sale and said valuation then you can't say we are guilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Therealrealist Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, daveyboy66 said: At what point did you see the evidence presented by Nick de Marco for the club ? If we are found guilty..will you blame dc or the efl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gizowl Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, thekimmyowl said: It’s a bloody mess, if they decide to relegate us at the end of the season there will be appeal after appeal and will cost the EFL a fortune. if they give us 9,10, or even 12 points and we are still safe then is that really a punishment for us if guilty? cant help but think both parties have made errors and it’s a hung decision and SWFC & the EFL are working together so neither loses face. IMO This is what my optimistic side is telling me. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Just now, Therealrealist said: If we are found guilty..will you blame dc or the efl DC if we are found guilty obviously but, we were in an embargo which meant that we were working WITH the EFL so it's fair to assume that what we did was okayed by them as we were taken off the embargo by the EFL. If they weren't happy they wouldn't have done that would they ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 It’s getting to the point where it’s hard to see how a punishment can be implemented this season. Surely the final table has to be the final table otherwise the EFL has completely failed in its duty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradowl Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Therealrealist said: If we are found guilty..will you blame dc or the efl I'm blaming fans for demanding signings of Rhodes, Reach, Winnall, Fletcher, Abdi and rest I've forgotten. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahowl Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 26 minutes ago, Brissy-owl said: My thoughts exactly, guilty is guilty, we broke the rules so punish us, learn from it and move on What makes you know we broke the rules ?which rule and why? Thought that was what the disciplinary commission was deciding , don’t know why they have wasted their time , they should have asked you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Just now, McRightSide said: It’s getting to the point where it’s hard to see how a punishment can be implemented this season. Surely the final table has to be the final table otherwise the EFL has completely failed in its duty I would have thought as long as its done before next seasons fixtures are released, then the EFL could relegate a club found guilty of an offence. I don't buy into it having to be done before the season finishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miffed Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Spondon Owl said: Its madness that we still don't know anything. Absolute madness. It’s also madness that not even the media know anything, all they are doing it speculating as well. They’re the ones who should be banging on the door of the EFL and the Club trying to get a story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 16 minutes ago, mkowl said: What rules have we broken because if we haven't accounting wise on the date of sale it is a matter of judgement on the valuation. Unless you have seen both the contract of sale and said valuation then you can't say we are guilty And like the audited accounts, the valuation was done independently and signed off in accordance with the RICS standards. Any practice who inflate the values could be severely reprimanded and potential disqualified in providing this service in future, risking their existence. They wouldn't do this for this reason. The EFL can ask for another valuation, which might come up with a different figure. It might then be a matter for arbitration, but it doesn't mean either valuation is wrong, just that they looked at different figures for the variables - construction costs indices, level of depreciation of Hillsborough etc. So say the valuation level is reduced to £50m through arbitration, it doesn't mean SWFC are guilty of misconduct, rather their consultants have not done as diligent job as they thought. I assume the level will be adjusted in the EFL returns so say we lost £8m in 17/18 rather than the £2m profit, although not sure about the SWFC official accounts, as these were signed off? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatricowl Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, bradowl said: I'm blaming fans for demanding signings of Rhodes, Reach, Winnall, Fletcher, Abdi and rest I've forgotten. Didn't help did it? DC has done a lot to appease the fans with signings. That has gone a long way to putting us in the position we are in. I doubt many fans would acknowledge that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogbad Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 19 minutes ago, S36 OWL said: I would have thought as long as its done before next seasons fixtures are released, then the EFL could relegate a club found guilty of an offence. I don't buy into it having to be done before the season finishes. The only problem with that is it reduces the capability of an affected club to deal in the transfer window. We'll find it difficult to sign players if we don't know what division we'll be in & the team finishing third from bottom will have the same issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gizowl Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 What a can of worms FFS EFL/Independent panel make your fcuking decision known so we can move on and be properly prepared for season 20/21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Down South Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Asio otus said: How can clubs sue the EFL for cases that have nothing to do with them, they dont see the evidence , they dont sit on the panel, its a complete joke. We could be given minus 100 points and Barnsley are still relegated. If clubs are going on to rely on points deduction to save their skin then we may as well pack in playing. I guess if points deduction are going to become the "norm" then surely they should always happen at the beginning of a season , then there is no faffing around also there would have to be exceptions were a club cannot be promoted if they are charged to stop situations like Wolves, Villa, Bournemouth etc. On the whole is a complete mess and the EFL should scrap it,its clear to everyone its not fit for purpose. Wage & transfer fee capping is the way forward. I’m with you on that, there has to be some structure around the process. Clubs should be advised of any points penalties ideally before the season starts, or at the very least, by the mid-point of the season, otherwise any deductions carry over to the following season. Only exception would be Administration as per current Wigan situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, geriatricowl said: Didn't help did it? DC has done a lot to appease the fans with signings. That has gone a long way to putting us in the position we are in. I doubt many fans would acknowledge that. So because the fans wanted players DC is absolved of spending money stupidly without thought of consequences? What a load of rubbish. I am sure Spurs fans wanted big names but Daniel Levy wasn't stupid enough to listen. To blame fans for the gross overspending of DC is mindblowing. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) One thing you would guess with the delay is that the case isn’t cut and dry for either side. Maybe I’m thinking to much but IF we are found guilty perhaps the punishment won’t be as harsh because It isn’t so stacked on either side. Edited July 18, 2020 by WalthamOwl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dronfield_SWFC Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Still think they are waiting to see how many points clear we are from relegation as they know they have f@@@ked up and give us 9 points if it saves us to keep Gibson quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddybeararmy Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 I've compiled a list of possible scenarios as to why we have had no decision on the hearing, please discuss, contradict, dismiss. 1. The hearing is still ongoing ( widely reported that it has finished ) 2. Swfc won the case and the EFL declined to appeal. ( surely this would have been reported immediately by the club) 3.swfc won the case and the EFL decided to appeal. (again surely the club would have reported on this) 4.the efl won, the club accepted the result but are negotiating on the punishment. 5. The efl won, the club then waited for the maximum 14 days before lodging their appeal ( waiting to see if enough points were accumulated on the pitch to negate the punishment). 6. The efl won, the club know the punishment and are waiting for the season to end before releasing a statement. 7. None of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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