Venancio- Why did he fail to get a look in under CC

[Bleeder]

41 minutes ago, thebrap11 said:

 

Van aken will be our best defender when he gets back from injury I reckon  

 

You may be right...... However....He's lacked composure at times this season whereas Venancio (don't know if that's spelt properly,) seems to have been very steady from the outset. Problem with that position is that any mistake is often glaring.... much more forgiving to make an error as a winger say...

[handworth52]

trust me carlos is and was the worst manager in the championship ,its going to take upto 3 years to clear his mess up ,ie players contracts etc. just don't know why he wernt given boot a lot time ago ,would have made a new managers job a lot easier.

[pachyderm]

19 minutes ago, Bleeder said:

He he.... Hope not mate. No hate in me at all.

 

um

 

I meant some of Loovens lovers were going to get at ya. 

 

Cheers!

[Guest Copthorneowl]

It's all well and good and also fair to say that Loovens is a steadying influence, has experience and a good leader ...But there comes a time when all players however influential they've been go past the point of being useful or important to the team.

 

Loovens has reached that point imo, yes he's been all the good things people say but we simply have to move on and he shouldn't be picked pure and simple.

 

Like many I firmly believe Van Ackens skill on the ball and ability to set up an attack will eventually make him an automatic pick but I agree he just lacks that bite in the tackle and alertness to cut out danger.  As for Venancio it's great that he's now showing he can make another good defender ...foreign players always need time to adapt to champ football.  It's all looking much better under the new manager thank goodness.

 

 

[jonesy87shef]

Don't need to go into why Carlos hasn't played him, hats been said enough and I agree with it.

 

Just wanted to point out that Fred will look much better playing as a 3, less to do, more cover etc. Can't fault him though, he's playing well.

 

I also expect Van Aken to shine left of a back 3 if we continue to play this way. Will also give him licence to carry the call out more. I think this current formation will see us get the best out of a lot of our squad.

 

It's wing backs that are the worry for me. Wondering if certain midfielders will will the role better when we have a full squad. 

[Indoor Owl]

21 minutes ago, handworth52 said:

trust me carlos is and was the worst manager in the championship ,its going to take upto 3 years to clear his mess up ,ie players contracts etc. just don't know why he wernt given boot a lot time ago ,would have made a new managers job a lot easier.

 

The worst manager in the Championship, but playing for promotion two years in a row?

 

Riiight

[Adam Reachs left peg]

its because carlos couldnt spell his name right hence why was never in the team

[james o connor]

41 minutes ago, Tamworthowl said:

Venancio has looked assured with three centre backs. With just the two, he's been sound but rushed at times and made a few, minor, errors. I suspect that Van Aken will also be a much better player in the new formation, if we stick to it.

I agree that Loovens is looking more a liability with every game, but his experience is important. With two cbs Carlos probably thought the experience of Loovens or Pudil was preferable to starting with two new players.

 

Pudil yes, he’s been god at centre half. Loovens , you may as well play a traffic cone. Another one who needed letting go in the summer 

[handworth52]

58 minutes ago, Indoor Owl said:

 

The worst manager in the Championship, but playing for promotion two years in a row?

 

Riiight

with the biggest wage budget ever from a non parachute club ,wolves wage bill is a lot lower and there running away with the league ,carlos has took us so far backwards its unreal,we will be paying for his hopeless management now for the next 3 years ,  he took the club on debt free ,a very low wage budget bottom 6 wages in league at time ,had a core of quality players westwood,lees,hutch,lee and a few others , roeder and co fetched in fessi,wallace,hooper joao bannan hunt that were nothing to do with carlos ,we played mostly exciting football that 1st season ,but once (jan 16) onwards came about carlos had full control on transfers and what a mess he made of that ,which is leaving us right on ffp which will effect whoever manager is for next 3 years as we have no chance of offloading abdi 40k a wk, fletcher 40k a wk,rhodes 50k a wk and so on . you can argue all day about carlos did this and that but we witnessed some of the most boring football in the last 18months and stale tactics ,it was a huge, massive chance to go up ,no manager will ever likely get the same funds again ,well defo not in next 3 years due to huge wage bill of players who we cant get rid of until there contracts run out. I judge a manager/coach on what he has to work with s gray had peanuts ,carlos had megabucks, now jos has peanuts (as in money for loans/signings and a totally unfit squad ,full of cripples , if jos keeps us up this season he will have done as well as what carlos did to finish 6th . to me its been a huge wasted chance.

[swfc-dan]

Another of Carlos mysteries. I've wanted him in the team all year, could make a good partner for Lees when fit.

 

He's the right age, has experience, can defend and most importantly is fit! Carlos really pissed fans off by not using players, it made no sense and I'm glad he's gone. Jos comes in and immediately is giving people a chance, and Venancio is taking it.

[torryowl]

4 hours ago, Animal said:

We signed for cover, but I also think Carlos had his favourites. 

of course he had his favourites most managers do .......westwood. lees..lee.hutch.bannan,wallace , FF ,hooper ,reach, have been shoe in's when fit that leaves two other spots for 20 odd players . when this lot are out injured all the others have had chances, that most of them havnt convinced carlos they are better that those 9 then it stands to reason he's going to go back to them everytime .  

[adelphi1867]

IF we do sign Venancio in the summer, I believe that we will have 4 of the better C/Defenders in the Championship next season with him, Van Arken, O'Grady and Nielson.

I was saying 2-3 months ago to give Fred a defensive M/F role, just to give him some experience in English football.

[evaD]

Something I noticed against the Blunts was how vocal Venancio was. Constantly talking and trying to organise the defence. I don't think Loovens has ever done this enough.

 

3 hours ago, Bluesteel said:

CC struggled with expectation and preferred to pick his playoff side. Van Aken was picked for his passing ability.

 

Could JVA do a job as a holding player in the longer term, great vision and comfy on the ball but isn’t aggressive for a centre half 

 

That would be interesting to see, got to be an improvement on Jones in that position. Certainly has the right attributes

 

2 hours ago, jonesy87shef said:

Don't need to go into why Carlos hasn't played him, hats been said enough and I agree with it.

 

Just wanted to point out that Fred will look much better playing as a 3, less to do, more cover etc. Can't fault him though, he's playing well.

 

I also expect Van Aken to shine left of a back 3 if we continue to play this way. Will also give him licence to carry the call out more. I think this current formation will see us get the best out of a lot of our squad.

 

It's wing backs that are the worry for me. Wondering if certain midfielders will will the role better when we have a full squad. 

 

Also agree with this. Similar to how Pudil did against the Blunts. He's left-footed isn't he?

[cowl]

5 minutes ago, torryowl said:

of course he had his favourites most managers do .......westwood. lees..lee.hutch.bannan,wallace , FF ,hooper ,reach, have been shoe in's when fit that leaves two other spots for 20 odd players . when this lot are out injured all the others have had chances, that most of them havnt convinced carlos they are better that those 9 then it stands to reason he's going to go back to them everytime .  

 

We've far too many in the squad that CC was either not playing ever or rarely - it's hardly surprising that when they do finally play they look off the pace.

 

We also had a number of players that could play consistently below the level they'd previously set only to play week in, week out. I dare say they might have been carrying niggling injuries such that their form was affected, but CC really ought to have utilised the squad more in these situations - if nothing else it's good for squad harmony if poor form is handled by giving another a chance.

[Bigblueowl]

He talks throughout too.looks like a natural leader to me. He was constantly talking to Nielson last night. Hunt was very vocal last night too. He organised everyone for Carlisles set pieces. 

[Socialist_Owl]

2 hours ago, Indoor Owl said:

 

The worst manager in the Championship, but playing for promotion two years in a row?

 

Riiight

McLaren did that for Derby and no one wants him for their open jobs.

 

Jaap Stam had Reading nearly in the PL and now he's being run out town.

 

Billy Davies had Forest in the playoffs alnost every year.

 

That credit doesn't nearly hold as much currency as you think it does.

[stowyowl]

8 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

IF we do sign Venancio in the summer, I believe that we will have 4 of the better C/Defenders in the Championship next season with him, Van Arken, O'Grady and Nielson.

I was saying 2-3 months ago to give Fred a defensive M/F role, just to give him some experience in English football.

I know O'Grady and Nielson looked promising last night and I'm all for them being involved in the squad and getting further chances but surely it's too early to list them amongst the best central defenders in the league?

[hasthagotanycheese]

Cluelost should have got the bullet either after he bottled it against Hudds or early on in this season when it was clear that we were in for more sideways turdball.

 

DC stuck by his manager for far too long. Credit to the owner for his loyalty but in business you do need to be ruthless. 

 

This season is now an exercise in building for next year, hopefully with a decent cup run thrown in.  

[stanningtonowl]

39 minutes ago, torryowl said:

of course he had his favourites most managers do .......westwood. lees..lee.hutch.bannan,wallace , FF ,hooper ,reach, have been shoe in's when fit that leaves two other spots for 20 odd players . when this lot are out injured all the others have had chances, that most of them havnt convinced carlos they are better that those 9 then it stands to reason he's going to go back to them everytime .  

He should have spent the transfer money on better players then and not squad fillers who he wouldn't play.

[Whatahoot]

For me Loovens should have been out of the picture last summer, being too slow in his running and cumbersome in his passing. ideally the issue should have been sorted then, by bringing in someone else of lesser years and I would have persisted another season with Sasso, who was showing some signs of settling and improvement, albeit he did have a habit of making a mistake in some games.

CC showed too much loyalty to Loovens and is the reason why Fred did'nt feature, he made the choice that Van Aken was better in moving the ball, but he too has a mistake in him, at this stage. But with experience and coaching nothing that won't come right. Same a Sasso really. If we had kept Sasso we would have saved on the fee we paid for VA and had the money still, should Fred prove his worth.