Luke Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, I'm an Essex Owl said: Not sure any manager would get top 6 with May and Nuhiu up front (Gray didn't)... Whatever anyone now says Carlos was one of our more successful managers. He and the squad massively over achieved to get to Wembley in year one. Yes I believe, we have wasted money since and signed the wrong players or rather failed to sign the right ones and yes I could have happily stuck pins in my eyes rather than watch the utter turgid shybo Carlos had us playing this season. But to say he was the worst manager in the league is ridiculous. I never said he was the worst in the league nor agree with it but saying he is a good manager because he got two playoff finishes isn't telling a full story,with the money he has had its the minimum youd have expected ,just like gray and laws achieved what was expected with their finaces given. this 'carlos is the best manager in 20 years' doesn't work out if he's ad 20 times more than the other managers combined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanningtonowl Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 28 minutes ago, torryowl said: how the feck could he do that when he couldn't sign who he wanted ?........ Think this is one of those urban myths. Who signed them then? Carlos, Chansiri or Doyen/Carlos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzOwl Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Look again at the Huddersfield away leg, any negative questions about Carlos will be answered after ninety minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm an Essex Owl Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, welsOwl74 said: I never said he was the worst in the league nor agree with it but saying he is a good manager because he got two playoff finishes isn't telling a full story,with the money he has had its the minimum youd have expected ,just like gray and laws achieved what was expected with their finaces given. this 'carlos is the best manager in 20 years' doesn't work out if he's ad 20 times more than the other managers combined Wasn't saying you did say he was worst in the league. But others have made that claim. I think you make a very fair point about the resources he had and its true that Laws and Grey had nothing like it. We'll never know how others would have done with that resource. Also our expenditure in that first season was not that of a top six side. Anyway think we all agree that money alone is not enough. Otherwise Moyes wouldn't have been such a disaster at ManU and Derby would have been out of this league years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, stanningtonowl said: Think this is one of those urban myths. Who signed them then? Carlos, Chansiri or Doyen/Carlos? to support that he's targetted 2 doyen players for swansea ...funny that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm an Essex Owl Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, OzOwl said: Look again at the Huddersfield away leg, any negative questions about Carlos will be answered after ninety minutes. Couldn't agree more. Home leg was worse. Albeit with if Hooper was able to play FF fully fit and not having to make a substitution after 2 minutes who knows what would have happened. Think Carlos was a disaster over those two legs (and it was the first time I started to think he needed to go) but that doesn't mean he was always useless. Don't forget the good times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzlebeak Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Carlos had our pants down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 He's looked a decent player so far. I'm very surprised on what I've seen that he didn't get a chance in the side earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woozie Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, steelowl said: to support that he's targetted 2 doyen players for swansea ...funny that Which two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelowl Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Woozie said: Which two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s6 owl Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) Swansea ran out to Hi Ho Silver Lining tonight by the looks of it, the lifelong Swansea fan probably had something to do with it. Edited January 17, 2018 by s6 owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlsfieldowl Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 10 hours ago, Eaton_Swfc said: Just one of many players frozen out by CC for no apparent reason. Has looked good since playing. Yep - should stay in the side now imo ..Loovens as cover. A good sub to have as 90 mins is looking a tall order forbhe Dutchman - the legs have gone sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoop Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, OneDavidHirst said: Because Carlos was a fraud and incompetent. This Never have I been so glad to get shut of a manager, well maybe with the exception of Alan Irvine Edited January 17, 2018 by Stoop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s6 owl Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Stoop said: This Never have I been so glad to get shut of a manager, well maybe with the exception of Alan Irvine Yes but people keep saying he’s the the most successful Wednesday manager of the last 20 years despite achieving NOTHING. Biggest waste of time more like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoop Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, s6 owl said: Yes but people keep saying he’s the the most successful Wednesday manager of the last 20 years despite achieving NOTHING. Biggest waste of time more like. Spent the most money of any manager in the history of Sheffield Wednesday too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s6 owl Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Stoop said: Spent the most money of any manager in the history of Sheffield Wednesday too He was very good at buying random and unnecessary players but crap at building a team and managing a professional football club. I bet he’s amazing at poker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) I think it’s unfair to dismiss everything CC did as a budget doesn’t always equate to a promotion (ask Villa, Norwich, Derby et al) and he did get us very close. It worked best in the first season when we built some momentum but the shortcomings of the side were evident, a lack of a back up for Hutchinson, a lack of pace, a lack of a left sided player and a centre forward. We only addressed two of the above and wasted a lot of money on buying midfielders that fit CCs criteria. Second season was more pragmatic but the same issues were highlighted in the big games to break into the top two and playoffs again where we seemed to struggle with the occasion. Plus the games against the bottom sides we were outmuscled. It became clear that when we could have things our own way we were excellent but we weren’t quite good enough under Carlos to get the job done. He got the chance to change his ways for a third season, didn’t and a combo of that together with a playoff hangover ultimately saw us and him bomb out. There are multiple stories of him asking players to join only to not play them - mcgeady, Buckley, mcmanaman, Butterfield, venanacio. If they don’t fit or don’t understand “the system” don’t sign them or change the system. So it was a case of being good but being unable to adapt and trust others when under pressure. He can certainly do a good job for a short period, look at Swansea now. Edited January 17, 2018 by Bluesteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shezzas left peg Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 10 hours ago, N0rtherner said: For Carlos it seems it was important to have an extra player for every position, but not use or manage them, just have them sit by idly twiddling their thumbs, even forcing the semi-recovered first team players back into action at the expense of their covers. Or should that be at the expense of thier Careers bud!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoop Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bluesteel said: I think it’s unfair to dismiss everything CC did as a budget doesn’t always equate to a promotion (ask Villa, Norwich, Derby et al) and he did get us very close. It worked best in the first season when we built some momentum but the shortcomings of the side were evident, a lack of a back up for Hutchinson, a lack of pace, a lack of a left sided player and a centre forward. We only addressed two of the above and wasted a lot of money on buying midfielders that fit CCs criteria. Second season was more pragmatic but the same issues were highlighted in the big games to break into the top two and playoffs again where we seemed to struggle with the occasion. Plus the games against the bottom sides we were outmuscled. It became clear that when we could have things our own way we were excellent but we weren’t quite good enough under Carlos to get the job done. He got the chance to change his ways for a third season, didn’t and a combo of that together with a playoff hangover ultimately saw us and him bomb out. There are multiple stories of him asking players to join only to not play them - mcgeady, Buckley, mcmanaman, Butterfield, venanacio. If they don’t fit or don’t understand “the system” don’t sign them or change the system. So it was a case of being good but being unable to adapt and trust others when under pressure. He can certainly do a good job for a short period, look at Swansea now. I know what your saying, but I think people fail to mention how CC was left a very solid side by Stuart Gray and he relied on it very heavily. The likes of Westwood, Loovens, Lees, Hutchinson and Lee provided an excellent spine that he still used until he was removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shezzas left peg Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 5 hours ago, adifferentgame said: Considering the level of funding he received and the talent at his disposal, I'm of the opinion that failing to get promoted constitutes under-achievement. I'm convinced Gray would have done a lot better had he been given the same resources, and he's not someone anyone would consider a "proven" manager. What success we've had over the past two seasons seems to have been in spite of Carlos, not because of him. It was part due to the platform Gray built for him, we kept something like 16 clean sheets In SGs season before, we were solid, fit, had great continuity and were a team. Slowly Carlos methods sadly eroded that.. Even now we still 3 seasons on were relying on SG signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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