Points deduction - peoples thoughts

[dorian gray]

59 minutes ago, the mighty wednesday said:

Last time I got done for speeding I went on a speed awareness course and the instructor said there was an allowance of 10% of the speed limit plus 2 mph. I was doing 58 in a 50 limit. 1 mph less and I would have been ok. That was about 7 or 8 years ago so maybe rules have changed in the meantime, but if not your mate must have been in a 50 or 60 mph restricted area without realising.

not quite so, south and west yorkshire forces employ the the 10% plus 2mph, north yorkshire do not state anything as far as i've seen in the past.

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

I don't think we will leave the hearing empty handed.

 

It may be applied to the correct season.

 

It may be converted to a fine.

 

It may be reduced by 3 or 6 points.

 

It may be suspended.

 

The minus 12 may be left in play; If so I don't see anything other than further litigation. However, all parties will be aware that this will impact on future season/seasons so the appeal board would not wish to pursue a route that would take their client (The EFL)  down a route with significant admin and financial risks,

 

Compromise deal for me would be a fine or minus 3, EFL would be hoping for -6 + a fine.

[the mighty wednesday]

30 minutes ago, dorian gray said:

not quite so, south and west yorkshire forces employ the the 10% plus 2mph, north yorkshire do not state anything as far as i've seen in the past.

My last ticket was on the way to Gainsborough from Donny so in North Notts. I took the awareness course in Donny so he may have been quoting S Yorks' policy but I assumed that it included Notts as well but maybe not.

[Sergeant Tibbs]

2 hours ago, the mighty wednesday said:

My last ticket was on the way to Gainsborough from Donny so in North Notts. I took the awareness course in Donny so he may have been quoting S Yorks' policy but I assumed that it included Notts as well but maybe not.

Just north of Wetherby, north Yorks.

[dorian gray]

11 hours ago, the mighty wednesday said:

My last ticket was on the way to Gainsborough from Donny so in North Notts. I took the awareness course in Donny so he may have been quoting S Yorks' policy but I assumed that it included Notts as well but maybe not.

i'm not sure but i think you can take the awareness course local to you.

otherwise anyone in brighton for the w/e would have to trail back there, so under those rules you may have been in north notts jurisdiction, but chose to take the course in donny.

[Bluesteel]

18 hours ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

I don't think we will leave the hearing empty handed.

 

It may be applied to the correct season.

 

It may be converted to a fine.

 

It may be reduced by 3 or 6 points.

 

It may be suspended.

 

The minus 12 may be left in play; If so I don't see anything other than further litigation. However, all parties will be aware that this will impact on future season/seasons so the appeal board would not wish to pursue a route that would take their client (The EFL)  down a route with significant admin and financial risks,

 

Compromise deal for me would be a fine or minus 3, EFL would be hoping for -6 + a fine.

The EFL will be hoping for the most likely scenario -12 retained. 

[the mighty wednesday]

9 hours ago, dorian gray said:

i'm not sure but i think you can take the awareness course local to you.

otherwise anyone in brighton for the w/e would have to trail back there, so under those rules you may have been in north notts jurisdiction, but chose to take the course in donny.

Yes that's correct. It looks like that the course tutor will only be able to state the rules in place in the area you sit the course so Notts may be completely different to s yorks with regard to the 10% plus 2 mph rule.

[Shez]

On 11/09/2020 at 13:44, WalthamOwl said:

It’s a shame the owner can’t just be punished rather than the club as a whole and more importantly the fanbase. 

It’s not about punishing the club it’s about removing any advantage financial irregularities or actions that break financial fair play may give. The drawbacks are parachute payments (should be factored into financial fair play) and the vagueness (or lack of specifics) in the rules. Selling the ground etc to the current owner to purposely circumvent financial fair play shouldn’t be allowed (regardless of which year it shows up on the accounts).

 

It should have been removed from profitability calculations for Wednesday, Reading, Derby and Villa and then any breaches dealt with as per the sliding scale of losses were beyond allowed...Wednesday got caught out due to the accounting anomaly...all should have had it removed but for the lack of foresight in the rules (and without punishment to the likes of Derby it would not be unfair to change/amend the rules and not allow others to do the same)

[Shetland Owl]

when do we get to hear about the appeal?

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

2 hours ago, Shetland Owl said:

when do we get to hear about the appeal?

 

Pundits have been speculating on mid October.

[Manwë]

The key is that any punishment should be consistent, in scale and in timing.  It doesn't matter to me when the punishment is applied per se, just that before any club goes into wrong-doing, they do so knowing how it will affect them and more importantly when it will be applied.  That means that if the EFL suspect two clubs, then both clubs are then brought to task at the same time in order to conclude both cases.  If there isn't such manpower, then make it available.  It's not that football is without money.

 

For preference, punishment should be at the end of the season for several reasons; closer to the time of punishment (ideally, same season), avoids any clubs being promoted out of the jurisdiction of the punishment (promotion to the EPL) and acts as an immediate brake to further wrong-doing, hopefully.

 

I think for Wednesday, starting on -12, is a bit like any of us joining a company we know has just lost a massive order and is looking to cut cloth.  I don't know the ins and outs of our recruitment, but I do wonder how many players now have relegation clauses.  Overall, the club becomes a harder-sell especially if the player has a few options, which overall is a negative thing as we are not an an equal footing with our rivals.

[dorian gray]

On 12/09/2020 at 11:22, Sheff74 said:

A siege mentality is required in every single game.  Does this squad have the characters though?

 

Also, I don't buy Monk's nonsense about the pressure being off, it's actually the exact opposite. Relegation would be a disaster.

let's be fair here, i bet you don't buy anything about monk do you?

[Westfield Owl]

On 11/09/2020 at 23:44, Westfield Owl said:

I think the 12 point deduction is going to be a death sentence for this season.

 

We’re going to need about 60 points for safety; usually that points total will have you finish about 12th.

 

Our post-Xmas collapse last season saw us collect just 17 points from the final 23 league games.  We were comfortably the second-worst team in the division for that period.  Only Hull were worst than us in the second half of last season.

 

Since then we’ve lost key players; Fletcher, Hutchinson, Fox, Forestieri, Westwood (that last one is self-imposed of course).

 

So the very last thing we needed right now was a points deduction.  Given the above, I don’t feel we can realistically hope to stay up.

 

The uncertainty of the deduction will have made us an unattractive employer in the eyes of some of our transfer targets.

 

Given this situation, our recruitment so far has been ok but we’re still lacking in many areas, in particular we’re weak at GK, LB, CDM and our main weakness is up front, which frankly is a complete mess and we will struggle to score goals as things are.

 

In many respects, we’d have been better having the 12 points imposed on last season and starting this season in League One without the -12 hanging over us.

 

Don’t want to blow my own trumpet but I reckon I’ve nailed it with these pre-season predictions from all those months ago.

[83owl]

7 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

Don’t want to blow my own trumpet but I reckon I’ve nailed it with these pre-season predictions from all those months ago.

Apart from calling Westwood and Hutchinson key players

[matthefish2002]

On 14/09/2020 at 09:34, Shetland Owl said:

when do we get to hear about the appeal?

 

I dont think we ever have.

[S36 OWL]

Too many people get blinded by the pts deduction. Even without it we would still be in the relegation zone, that's how horrendous we have been on the pitch this season. 

[alanharper]

15 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

I dont think we ever have.

 

The question referred to the original appeal, which halved the deduction to 6 points. And ultimately made no difference other than giving some false hope. 

[OwlBiSeeinThi]

2 hours ago, S36 OWL said:

Too many people get blinded by the pts deduction. Even without it we would still be in the relegation zone, that's how horrendous we have been on the pitch this season. 

Not that this is an excuse, but the deduction must have had a psychological effect on the players and affected performances.

It just highlighted that we don't have fighters and battlers in the squad.

To much if a challenge for them.

 

 

[matthefish2002]

3 hours ago, S36 OWL said:

Too many people get blinded by the pts deduction. Even without it we would still be in the relegation zone, that's how horrendous we have been on the pitch this season. 

 

To me it wasn't just the points deduction but that it would also put off some players straight away.

Some players would be reluctant to join a club where an uphill relegation battle is best you can hope for.

[sonofbert2]

We’ve possibly suffered by not having supporters in the ground early doors.

 

There was a siege mentality at -12 and a sense of hope with the 6 we got back again.

 

It’s very difficult to say either way whether that “vibe” would have and could have been transmitted and got behind the set of sappy belltips and I guess we’ll never know but I can’t help but think that they couldn’t possibly have done any worse.