For the “Monk Out” gang

[gurujuan]

I didn’t really want to get involved in this particular thread but, I think there are lessons Monk has to learn, and hopefully he will It’s a job Monk really wanted, and he believes he can prove to people he can be a success at this club. Surely that is what we all want. If he can stabilise things, and build a successful footballing team, we will all be happy. Last season was a difficult season for him, nobody would deny that, but on occasions, he didn’t help himself. Given our -12 points predicament, this season has the potential to be even more tricky if he gets things wrong. For me at least, it’s so far, so good. I like his recruitment plans, and as long as he moves away from that route one stuff, I’ll be happy. 
I was against his appointment for two reasons. Firstly, the style of football I feared he might play, that was a worry, but remembering the football his Leeds and Swansea sides played, perhaps my not the main worry. 
My main concern was, the flaws in his personality, that had led to him feuding with people, and ultimately, undermining what he was trying to do He seems to have an abrasive personality, that sometimes can rub people up the wrong way. He will have to rein that in, and hone his man management skills, if he is to be a success here, or anywhere for that matter. Last season was a classic example of how not to do things. 
After a relatively successful first half to the season, in which, rightly, he had mainly observed things, and didn’t rock the boat. Taking stock at Christmas, he’d obviously seen things he felt he needed to change to benefit the team going forwards. I can’t comment on the specifics of what those changes were, none of us can, but my stance was, if he felt that is what was needed to improve the team, it was his prerogative to do so. That’s what a manager is supposed to do, make the hard decisions. Where I suspect the problems arose, is in the way it was handled, and that rubbed people up the wrong way. There will be those who say, tough, it needed doing, but what if, by doing it that way, he had taken us down? 
It’s a bit like the Barcelona situation, there were changes there that were much needed, but it was the way that Koeman, a similarly abrasive character, went about it, that chaos ensued  Even good coaches can shoot themselves in the foot, if they don’t handle things properly. I hope Monk has learned those lessons, and can go on and show us that he can be a successful manager

Edited August 26, 2020 by gurujuan

[Plonk]

1 hour ago, gurujuan said:

I didn’t really want to get involved in this particular thread but, I think there are lessons Monk has to learn, and hopefully he will It’s a job Monk really wanted, and he believes he can prove to people he can be a success at this club. Surely that is what we all want. If he can stabilise things, and build a successful footballing team, we will all be happy. Last season was a difficult season for him, nobody would deny that, but on occasions, he didn’t help himself. Given our -12 points predicament, this season has the potential to be even more tricky if he gets things wrong. For me at least, it’s so far, so good. I like his recruitment plans, and as long as he moves away from that route one stuff, I’ll be happy. 
I was against his appointment for two reasons. Firstly, the style of football I feared he might play, that was a worry, but remembering the football his Leeds and Swansea sides played, perhaps my not the main worry. 
My main concern was, the flaws in his personality, that had led to him feuding with people, and ultimately, undermining what he was trying to do He seems to have an abrasive personality, that sometimes can rub people up the wrong way. He will have to rein that in, and hone his man management skills, if he is to be a success here, or anywhere for that matter. Last season was a classic example of how not to do things. 
After a relatively successful first half to the season, in which, rightly, he had mainly observed things, and didn’t rock the boat. Taking stock at Christmas, he’d obviously seen things he felt he needed to change to benefit the team going forwards. I can’t comment on the specifics of what those changes were, none of us can, but my stance was, if he felt that is what was needed to improve the team, it was his prerogative to do so. That’s what a manager is supposed to do, make the hard decisions. Where I suspect the problems arose, is in the way it was handled, and that rubbed people up the wrong way. There will be those who say, tough, it needed doing, but what if, by doing it that way, he had taken us down? 
It’s a bit like the Barcelona situation, there were changes there that were much needed, but it was the way that Koeman, a similarly abrasive character, went about it, that chaos ensued  Even good coaches can shoot themselves in the foot, if they don’t handle things properly. I hope Monk has learned those lessons, and can go on and show us that he can be a successful manager

Exactly my thoughts. All managers have hard decisions to make. It’s how you handle those hard decisions so you deal with the issue but don’t harm the organisation in the process. If you are going to take a decision that inflicts damage on the individual and the organisation then you are perhaps not making the right decision for the right reasons? Hope he’s not just bringing young players in because they are easier to handle?

Time will tell, but he has created a difficult situation that he needs to rectify sharpish.

[cookeh]

Wasn't impressed with Monk before he joined us. His record was poor and his temprament was highly questionable.

 

Facts are he's been very poor for us.

His points per game return is lower than Jos. It's the worst of any permanent appointee in the last 15 years.

He's fallen out with important players.

He's repeatedly blamed the players in the press and in the next breathe said he's not blaming anyone, the buck stops with him.

When he arrived he claimed everyone had a cleal slate and promptly froze people out without having given then a chance in the side.

He's overseen a huge number of exits in terms of playing staff and doesn't look like he can replace them in time for the new season.

The players he has bought in seem decent, but have very questionable fitness records. If they break down, then it's on him.

I'm trying to make a list of reasons to be positive to counterbalance the above.. but I can't think of anything.

Edited August 26, 2020 by cookeh

[Dutch McLovin]

7 minutes ago, cookeh said:

Wasn't impressed with Monk before he joined us. His record was poor and his temprament was highly questionable.

 

Facts are he's been very poor for us.

His points per game return is lower than Jos. It's the worst of any permanent appointee in the last 15 years.

He's fallen out with important players.

He's repeatedly blamed the players in the press and in the next breathe said he's not blaming anyone, the buck stops with him.

When he arrived he claimed everyone had a cleal slate and promptly froze people out without having given then a chance in the side.

He's overseen a huge number of exits in terms of playing staff and doesn't look like he can replace them in time for the new season.

The players he has bought in seem decent, but have very questionable fitness records. If they break down, then it's on him.

I'm trying to make a list of reasons to be positive to counterbalance the above.. but I can't think of anything.

Pretty Much Word Perfect This.

[Emilianenko]

But don’t forget he’s been allowed to bring in his own staff.

The same staff he has had such great success with previously.

[quinnssweetshop]

So to answer parajacks earlier comment about pre jesus christ etc etc

This is what i put when news broke on sky that monk was set to join us


 

[airborne_rat_of_s6]

Things seem to have slowed up on the transfer front. Can’t see why we have done away with so many forwards with seemingly no plan to bring in any, let alone better replacements. Growing concerned that we will be starting the season ill-prepared and will be fishing around for scraps in the loan market. As ever, left asking WTF is wrong with our club and it’s management.

[parajack]

11 hours ago, longreach said:

Are you sure you've got the right person now?  Only you've got history

Yes i have already apologised earlier,got a bit trigger happy,agreed,but one apology i made on second look,wasnt due.You took a bit of 'friendly fire' 

[parajack]

11 hours ago, gurujuan said:

I didn’t really want to get involved in this particular thread but, I think there are lessons Monk has to learn, and hopefully he will It’s a job Monk really wanted, and he believes he can prove to people he can be a success at this club. Surely that is what we all want. If he can stabilise things, and build a successful footballing team, we will all be happy. Last season was a difficult season for him, nobody would deny that, but on occasions, he didn’t help himself. Given our -12 points predicament, this season has the potential to be even more tricky if he gets things wrong. For me at least, it’s so far, so good. I like his recruitment plans, and as long as he moves away from that route one stuff, I’ll be happy. 
I was against his appointment for two reasons. Firstly, the style of football I feared he might play, that was a worry, but remembering the football his Leeds and Swansea sides played, perhaps my not the main worry. 
My main concern was, the flaws in his personality, that had led to him feuding with people, and ultimately, undermining what he was trying to do He seems to have an abrasive personality, that sometimes can rub people up the wrong way. He will have to rein that in, and hone his man management skills, if he is to be a success here, or anywhere for that matter. Last season was a classic example of how not to do things. 
After a relatively successful first half to the season, in which, rightly, he had mainly observed things, and didn’t rock the boat. Taking stock at Christmas, he’d obviously seen things he felt he needed to change to benefit the team going forwards. I can’t comment on the specifics of what those changes were, none of us can, but my stance was, if he felt that is what was needed to improve the team, it was his prerogative to do so. That’s what a manager is supposed to do, make the hard decisions. Where I suspect the problems arose, is in the way it was handled, and that rubbed people up the wrong way. There will be those who say, tough, it needed doing, but what if, by doing it that way, he had taken us down? 
It’s a bit like the Barcelona situation, there were changes there that were much needed, but it was the way that Koeman, a similarly abrasive character, went about it, that chaos ensued  Even good coaches can shoot themselves in the foot, if they don’t handle things properly. I hope Monk has learned those lessons, and can go on and show us that he can be a successful manager

Ime glad i never rub people up the wrong way.............................

[parajack]

4 hours ago, airborne_rat_of_s6 said:

Things seem to have slowed up on the transfer front. Can’t see why we have done away with so many forwards with seemingly no plan to bring in any, let alone better replacements. Growing concerned that we will be starting the season ill-prepared and will be fishing around for scraps in the loan market. As ever, left asking WTF is wrong with our club and it’s management.

Agree about the Forward line,you think there going to try Windass & JR? maybe supported by Wingbacks? JR doesn't really thrive on direct,long ball type Football..(well tbh,what has he allegedly thrived on for long enough?) Still has his supporters though,which is,to me odd.

Maybe Monk has seen something in him in pre season? or thinks Beattie can bring him back to his best?..very close now to season start...You dont think Monk has persuaded Messi to come do you?..

[Wednesday_Jack]

22 hours ago, cookeh said:

Wasn't impressed with Monk before he joined us. His record was poor and his temprament was highly questionable.

 

Facts are he's been very poor for us.

His points per game return is lower than Jos. It's the worst of any permanent appointee in the last 15 years.

He's fallen out with important players.

He's repeatedly blamed the players in the press and in the next breathe said he's not blaming anyone, the buck stops with him.

When he arrived he claimed everyone had a cleal slate and promptly froze people out without having given then a chance in the side.

He's overseen a huge number of exits in terms of playing staff and doesn't look like he can replace them in time for the new season.

The players he has bought in seem decent, but have very questionable fitness records. If they break down, then it's on him.

I'm trying to make a list of reasons to be positive to counterbalance the above.. but I can't think of anything.

His record at Leeds and boro was In the mid to late 40’s in terms of % wins...not to shabby. Considering the state of affairs at Birmingham, he record is applaudable also. 
 

Monk hasn’t overseen any player exits other than contract expiries, I would also assume his input on this as been minimal. In terms of players in there are another 2-3 weeks to go.
 

I just feel that Monk is “damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t”...I would say 90% of the fans where calling for a major overhaul, which isn’t going to happen in two weeks of preseason, it’s going to take time. The initial steps are positive but I agree with most there is still lots to be done. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Wednesday_Jack

[daveyboy66]

17 hours ago, airborne_rat_of_s6 said:

Things seem to have slowed up on the transfer front. Can’t see why we have done away with so many forwards with seemingly no plan to bring in any, let alone better replacements. Growing concerned that we will be starting the season ill-prepared and will be fishing around for scraps in the loan market. As ever, left asking WTF is wrong with our club and it’s management.

Yeah we haven't brought anyone in for days...shame on you Monk 

[modboy]

thought he spoke very well on the interview yesterday

 

Position we find ourselves in i feel it was the correct decision to stick by him (short break etc).

 

Might have been different had we sacked him around easter time if the normal schedule had gone ahead. He knows the players and what was needed and lets hope it works out for all.

[airborne_rat_of_s6]

14 hours ago, parajack said:

Agree about the Forward line,you think there going to try Windass & JR? maybe supported by Wingbacks? JR doesn't really thrive on direct,long ball type Football..(well tbh,what has he allegedly thrived on for long enough?) Still has his supporters though,which is,to me odd.

Maybe Monk has seen something in him in pre season? or thinks Beattie can bring him back to his best?..very close now to season start...You dont think Monk has persuaded Messi to come do you?..

Starting the season with one recognised forward, who hasn't really done anything in the past 2 years, playing a system which does not suit him or most of the players we have sums it up. 

[airborne_rat_of_s6]

1 hour ago, daveyboy66 said:

Yeah we haven't brought anyone in for days...shame on you Monk 

Yep, cos the noises coming out of the club of late are really positive regarding transfers. 

[Vaughan]

On 20/08/2020 at 19:56, Wednesday_Jack said:

Genuine question for you all...have the 3 early signings and the arrival of the new back room staff given you any confidence in Monk?? 
 

The situation is changing and changing in a positive way imo. 

 

Still no.

 

How about you now ? 
 

 

[jonnyowl]

Kachunga and Marriott don't look good enough.

 

Brown and Dunkely injured.

 

FDB on bench.

 

So much for signing the right players!

[Wednesday_Jack]

7 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

 

Still no.

 

How about you now ? 
 

 

I’ll be totally honest in my view...the first few games I was optimistic but we will have soon played 25% of fixtures and we are still around 3/4 results from looking like we can even start to get out of this. Add to this our our home performances and results and it’s very worrying...so the answer to this is my confidence is dwindling rather quickly.

 

Monk as been given his back room staff and made signings (Which I wanted to see before jumping on the band wagon) but we don’t even look like scoring at the moment. Next 2 games are as big as any in our recent history in my opinion...if we don’t pick up maximum points we could quite easily find ourselves back to 12 points behind and 10/11 games gone

[doubled123456]

47 minutes ago, jonnyowl said:

Kachunga and Marriott don't look good enough.

 

Brown and Dunkely injured.

 

FDB on bench.

 

So much for signing the right players!

Joa scoring. Fletch scoring. Monk signings?

[Mr Farrell]

On 20/08/2020 at 19:56, Wednesday_Jack said:

Genuine question for you all...have the 3 early signings and the arrival of the new back room staff given you any confidence in Monk?? 
 

The situation is changing and changing in a positive way imo. 

 

Positive ? 

 

Wtf