jonnyowl Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Lord Snooty said: There was someone in another thread wanting to leave 3 upfield! Mourinho started that at Porto and Chelsea. His theory was that the penalty box was less crowded so easier to defend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everydayiswednesday Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Brentford back 4 were all stood on the edge of our penalty area every time there was a corner, don't understand Monks or any managers logic at all. One man left up field would take at least 2 defenders with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, jonnyowl said: Mourinho started that at Porto and Chelsea. His theory was that the penalty box was less crowded so easier to defend! He's got a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flat Owl Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 We must have watched some old JJ videos and decided against it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 why not leave 5 up so that the opposites need 6 back and only have 3 in the box to our 6 ……. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flat Owl Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 1 minute ago, torryowl said: why not leave 5 up so that the opposites need 6 back and only have 3 in the box to our 6 ……. we need to try that one in pre-season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 53 minutes ago, jonnyowl said: Mourinho started that at Porto and Chelsea. His theory was that the penalty box was less crowded so easier to defend! Well we'd certainly have been better leaving Odubajo up field! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 21 minutes ago, Flat Owl said: we need to try that one in pre-season... it would probably work well ….6 against 3 as got to give you a better chance than 11 against 8 in a congested box ……...no one would dare try it though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerson Thome Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Couldn't agree more. We end up clearing it and it comes straight back at us. Plus someone like Harris isn't much use unless their attackers are 5'7" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0rtherner Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 5 hours ago, StudentOwl said: This is probably the sort of thing where managers have crunched the data and found that you concede x% fewer goals from corners and the following phase of play if you have everyone back vs leaving 1, 2, 3 etc up. It's always seemed counter-intuitive to me when teams pop everyone back, but it seems so prevalent in the game that there must be a logic to it...? That's what I thought too. I mean, if the other team has a corner and you decide to leave a few up and they put more men in on the corner and get an unmarked man to score, would you risk it on the off chance you can get the clearance to your own man up the field and score on a counter? Most times clearance from a corner ends up with someone from their team and should end up in a shot, simply to allow the team to get back on the right side of the ball. You're risking conceding a goal vs a lower chance of actually scoring on the counter with the man you left up... At least with my weak/weird grasp of maths ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatter Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 5 hours ago, gurujuan said: Manager after manager, and they all keep bringing everyone back. It’s one of those tactical decisions that really makes no sense Yes it does, the more crowded the penalty area the more difficult for the opposition to shoot or pass through our defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brommers Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Always been a bugbear of mine. You'd have to adjust your approach to the state of the game. If they are a goal down they are more likely to gamble so could have unmarked attackers for their corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shezzas left peg Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 14 hours ago, doubleo said: OK, I'm happy with the start made by GM and he speaks alot of common sense etc etc, but when defending corners why can't we please leave somebody with a bit of pace up towards the halfway line? For me the ideal candidate would be Harris. Not a great defender of a high ball, but, fast, capable of beating a man, and got a good shot on him. At times against Brentford there was every player on the pitch less than 25 yards from our goal line with the exception of their keeper who was stood just inside his own half ! That means they virtually had 9 men in a goal scoring position, being marked by 10 + Dawson. Leave Harris up, their keeper drops back to his goal, they bring 2 men back to mark him and that leaves us marking 7 with 9 + Dawson. Defensively the odds are better; when the ball comes out we have someone challenging for it which at the very least buys or defence time to get organised before it comes back in, and there's always the chance of a breakaway goal. I know alot of teams defend a corner with 11 but I just can't see the advantage - but that's probably why I'm sat in the North rather than in the dugout, It's something a lot of teams started doing in the 2000's as the old fashioned centre forward became less prevailent. England used to do this and I agree with you. The problem I have with it there's no out ball to relieve sustained pressure. Your just inviting more prolonged pressure defending. Keeping one up in the middle also forces the opposition to keep one or two players back to avoid getting cought by a quick ball or clearance up field. It' doesn't need to be someone super rapid either though. In the old days teams would leave their centre forward up to hold the ball up allowing everyone else to quick counter off him.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleo Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, shezzas left peg said: It's something a lot of teams started doing in the 2000's as the old fashioned centre forward became less prevailent. England used to do this and I agree with you. The problem I have with it there's no out ball to relieve sustained pressure. Your just inviting more prolonged pressure defending. Keeping one up in the middle also forces the opposition to keep one or two players back to avoid getting cought by a quick ball or clearance up field. It' doesn't need to be someone super rapid either though. In the old days teams would leave their centre forward up to hold the ball up allowing everyone else to quick counter off him.. For me when we play the 2 big lads up top I can understand bringing them back to defend the high ball. But I’d leave Harris on the centre spot, get our smallest and best passer of the ball ( Bazza ) to mark the player nearest the “D” so he has the best chance of picking up a loose ball and go from there. For the first time in years we have some genuine pace so why not use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flo Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) It's because it's more dangerous to counter attack with fast players sprinting forward chasing a kick from our own area, than having one player stood trying to control a long ball. For eg. If Dawson catches the ball and kicks it into space there is a good chance a fast player such as Harris is going to get it if every opposition player is within 25 yards of our goal. Edited December 9, 2019 by flo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scilly owl Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 17 hours ago, doubleo said: OK, I'm happy with the start made by GM and he speaks alot of common sense etc etc, but when defending corners why can't we please leave somebody with a bit of pace up towards the halfway line? For me the ideal candidate would be Harris. Not a great defender of a high ball, but, fast, capable of beating a man, and got a good shot on him. At times against Brentford there was every player on the pitch less than 25 yards from our goal line with the exception of their keeper who was stood just inside his own half ! That means they virtually had 9 men in a goal scoring position, being marked by 10 + Dawson. Leave Harris up, their keeper drops back to his goal, they bring 2 men back to mark him and that leaves us marking 7 with 9 + Dawson. Defensively the odds are better; when the ball comes out we have someone challenging for it which at the very least buys or defence time to get organised before it comes back in, and there's always the chance of a breakaway goal. I know alot of teams defend a corner with 11 but I just can't see the advantage - but that's probably why I'm sat in the North rather than in the dugout, Totally agree... I’ll get on the blower to Monk right now and suggest that strategy... I’ll post back his reply..... hold on................hold on.........ok, great, he said that he’d try it against Derby and that he’d leave four up by the halfway line and with Derby doubling up on each player they wouldn’t even have enough players to take the corner... flippin brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buxtongent Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Doesn't need everyone to come back. It's simple football.If a corner is taken and we win possession, who do we play to? If all ourt players are back, it can only go to the other side, and we are immediately under pressure again. Even one lone player outside is at least a target for clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzlebeak Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 19 hours ago, doubleo said: OK, I'm happy with the start made by GM and he speaks alot of common sense etc etc, but when defending corners why can't we please leave somebody with a bit of pace up towards the halfway line? For me the ideal candidate would be Harris. Not a great defender of a high ball, but, fast, capable of beating a man, and got a good shot on him. At times against Brentford there was every player on the pitch less than 25 yards from our goal line with the exception of their keeper who was stood just inside his own half ! That means they virtually had 9 men in a goal scoring position, being marked by 10 + Dawson. Leave Harris up, their keeper drops back to his goal, they bring 2 men back to mark him and that leaves us marking 7 with 9 + Dawson. Defensively the odds are better; when the ball comes out we have someone challenging for it which at the very least buys or defence time to get organised before it comes back in, and there's always the chance of a breakaway goal. I know alot of teams defend a corner with 11 but I just can't see the advantage - but that's probably why I'm sat in the North rather than in the dugout, We never did this when Hirst used to play................never understood it then, still don't. They have to leave two defenders with whoever's up front. Also if we clear from the corner some one to pick up the loose ball. Dont need a coaching badge for that piece of rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch McLovin Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 21 hours ago, gurujuan said: Manager after manager, and they all keep bringing everyone back. It’s one of those tactical decisions that really makes no sense We wanna think ourselves lucky its only at Corners, Jos used to have everyone in our own box for 90 mins !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SettleForADraw Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) Less people in the box = less chaotic and more chance of us clearing the ball. Two up on each wing and they have to leave three back. Edited December 9, 2019 by SettleForADraw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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