Guest Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Forestieri should’ve been sold, we won’t get diddly squat for him now Also think he’s done at this level, poor last 2 seasons in all honesty Clearly hope I’m wrong though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birley Owl 1867 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 We'll be able to get at least 5m for which would pay nicely for Hector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, hawksmore said: You do realise he barely played over the last 2 seasons, don't you?! And where we did finish in those 2 seasons? Compared to the 2 seasons when he played regularly? He absolutely was integral to our play off push. We’re not in a mess because we didn’t sell our best player. We’re in a mess because, FF Bannan Wallace Reach and Hector aside, our recruitment has been woeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Wednesday Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 4 hours ago, gurujuan said: While I don’t believe it was right for Jos to throw so many of the youngsters in, mainly because they weren’t good enough, you do have to persist with the ones you believe have a chance. When we say on here, why can’t we invest in the young talent like Brentford or Bristol City do, are we prepared to be patient. For example, I’d rather us back young Penney at left back, rather than bring in a more experienced player like Bidwell. The case for Dawson is different, because GK is a key position and we need the keeper to command his area, something Dawson cannot yet do. Would we have the courage to use the more talented, but inconsistent Joao up front? At Brentford, they would never choose a player like Fletcher over the Portuguese Maybe it’s because they couldn’t afford his wages, but I believe they would always go with the younger more talented player, even if short term, he proved more unreliable. At those clubs, with the pressure off, it’s all about developing the player, normally to sell on at a profit Would we as fans, have the patience, if we took that approach The 2 goes at the play offs raised the bar for SWFC supporters, everyones expectations went through the roof. A Bristol City or a Brentford don't have that pressure. We don't have the patience, any youngster coming into the first team need to be outstanding, otherwise we would want them replacing. Penney had a chance and still does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Doom merchants in full repetitive flow today. We had a very short term plan based solely on trying to get promoted in the first couple of years. We , at least those that go to games, enjoyed the ride. We got close but failed. We are paying the price. What matters now is not the past 4 years . Can’t do owt about it. it’s whether we can build again with Bruce and whether DC will listen to Bruce to keep him on track rather than his other advisers. Roll on the football. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowl Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 30 minutes ago, Minton said: It's all well and good selling a decent player for £12-15m, but unless you can find a replacement for less than the money received, what is the point? Derby are being used as an example to follow, but despite selling players, they haven't managed promotion and had to sell their ground to pass the P&S as well. If they continue to sell and continue to miss out on promotion, they'll gradually slide down the league as instead of having 3 or 4 top quality players they'll have 7 or 8 decent players That's where your scouting team need to step up. They should be finding the up and coming players before they get too high profile. I'm not sure we have had much of a scouting organisation over the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.armo Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 If we had sold FF after the first 2 seasons we fans would have gone barmy. He is still the best player we have got as he showed with his goal against Norwich. Bruce rates him very highly . I would build the team around him only player we have who gets you off your seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffwed1 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, s.armo said: If we had sold FF after the first 2 seasons we fans would have gone barmy. He is still the best player we have got as he showed with his goal against Norwich. Bruce rates him very highly . I would build the team around him only player we have who gets you off your seat. The best players in the division do it a lot more regularly than FF does. Please name me his top performances over the last couple of years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, Minton said: It's all well and good selling a decent player for £12-15m, but unless you can find a replacement for less than the money received, what is the point? Well, keeping us out of a transfer embargo would be one pretty big point. If we can find players and sell them for such a big profit then it follows that we can find replacements at a cheaper price somewhere too. If that profit can be spread on a multiple signings then even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philb125 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Can't believe there has been no talk of new faces or returning players that are out of contract today on return back for preseason from any of the local press, or have I missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 37 minutes ago, prowl said: That's where your scouting team need to step up. They should be finding the up and coming players before they get too high profile. I'm not sure we have had much of a scouting organisation over the last few years. Bruce brought in two key staff as head of recruitment and recruitment analyst in March, it may have been an issue previously but I don't think Bruce is going to allow us to be lagging behind in this respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, room0035 said: No just trying to show that if we developed thorniley he could now be worth £5m the same way Bristol city had a youth player for a few season and sold him for £12m. As for hector Chelsea signed him for £4m he has never played a first team game and is in the last year of his contract if we offered them £2.5m to £3m I think he would be our player now. But we don't have any money for transfers, hence the reason hector will unlikely be coming back. Perhaps Thorniley just isn't as talented as the kid that Bristol City moved on, them's the breaks. I think the bigger problem is that for a fair few years before DC we put very little value into developing youth football and struggled to attract the most talented kids as a result. Chansiri has at least put more focus and resource into developing the level of our academy teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: Perhaps Thorniley just isn't as talented as the kid that Bristol City moved on, them's the breaks. I think the bigger problem is that for a fair few years before DC we put very little value into developing youth football and struggled to attract the most talented kids as a result. Chansiri has at least put more focus and resource into developing the level of our academy teams. The big issue is we have loads of very good youngsters coming through up to under 18, but from under 18 to the first team our player management is crap. How many of our youth players went out on loan last season to get first team football - I can think of just two youth player and Rhodes last season, compare that with other team in our area, Sheffield United loaned out 30 youth and first team players, Barnsley 14 players, Rotherham 15 players. Sending players on loan does not only get them first team experience it also reduces the costs of salaries. Until we develop kids better we will never have youth being sold for big sums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swfc1983 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, Philb125 said: Can't believe there has been no talk of new faces or returning players that are out of contract today on return back for preseason from any of the local press, or have I missed something? I guessing the local press know but have been told to keep quiet until embargo is officially lifted so club can announce them first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minton Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, room0035 said: The big issue is we have loads of very good youngsters coming through up to under 18, but from under 18 to the first team our player management is crap. How many of our youth players went out on loan last season to get first team football - I can think of just two youth player and Rhodes last season, compare that with other team in our area, Sheffield United loaned out 30 youth and first team players, Barnsley 14 players, Rotherham 15 players. Sending players on loan does not only get them first team experience it also reduces the costs of salaries. Until we develop kids better we will never have youth being sold for big sums. I wouldn't imagine loaning teams are covering the wages of u18/youth and u23 players, certainly not in full. I'd also ask what league and standard these loaned players were competing at? If you're sending out 18/19 year old players to anything below national league, I would argue they aren't ever going to be competing for a first team place anyway. We don't have the numbers in either u18 or development squad to send out 15, 20, 30 players on loan either, something which is a legacy of the decades of underinvestment pre-Milan. Chansiri has overseen the biggest overhaul of that side of our club in years and last season we saw the u18s crowned national champions, hopefully a sign of an upturn in the quality coming through to the first team eventually. We won't see the results of that in the first team for another 2-3 years though. Edited June 28, 2019 by Minton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblueowl Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 hours ago, TheEnchanter said: I really don't think many of our fans know that we are one of the only so called big spenders in recent years that have pretty much failed to raise any money through player sales. I can't think of any others. This 'our best players aren't for sale' is daft! Anyond should be for sale and if the money is right ie Fessi and Lees two seasons ago they should have been sold! All teams need to evolve on a seasonal basis for me and if that means selling are better players then so be it! It's then over to our scouts/manager to bring in three or four quality young replacements! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocksyuto Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, room0035 said: The big issue is we have loads of very good youngsters coming through up to under 18, but from under 18 to the first team our player management is crap. How many of our youth players went out on loan last season to get first team football - I can think of just two youth player and Rhodes last season, compare that with other team in our area, Sheffield United loaned out 30 youth and first team players, Barnsley 14 players, Rotherham 15 players. Sending players on loan does not only get them first team experience it also reduces the costs of salaries. Until we develop kids better we will never have youth being sold for big sums. Our biggest asset in the youth team was Hirst and we couldn't even keep hold of him neither could we with Clare, so unless we start paying lads more itll happen all to often, I know Hirst was a greedy twohat but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, stocksyuto said: Our biggest asset in the youth team was Hirst and we couldn't even keep hold of him neither could we with Clare, so unless we start paying lads more itll happen all to often, I know Hirst was a greedy twohat but still. Hirst maybe but Clare didn't come through the youth team he was bought in from the Nike academy the same way we brought Nielson, Thorniley, Baker in from others youth teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, room0035 said: The big issue is we have loads of very good youngsters coming through up to under 18, but from under 18 to the first team our player management is crap. How many of our youth players went out on loan last season to get first team football - I can think of just two youth player and Rhodes last season, compare that with other team in our area, Sheffield United loaned out 30 youth and first team players, Barnsley 14 players, Rotherham 15 players. Sending players on loan does not only get them first team experience it also reduces the costs of salaries. Until we develop kids better we will never have youth being sold for big sums. Is that you thinking of how many players went out on loan or is that basically you using Wiki as your prime source of information as the 'loaned out' section of us and Utd tallies exactly with that. Not sure where you get your Rotherham and Barnsley info from but Rotherham might have been better served using some of these players themselves given how well their season went. When using Wiki you should at least try to analyse the info a bit more. At least half a dozen of the Utd players sent out on loan were senior players that had been signed by Wilder in the previous 12 months but had not worked out. I am sure if we had made that many signings that couldn't get near the first team you would be having a dig at us for that. The likes of Thorniley, Wildsmith, Dawson and Penney have come through for us since DC started to restructure a neglected academy. That should be praised but as usual you have chosen to ignore that. Maybe we could have sent more youngsters out on loan last year but there has to be interest and it has to be right for the player. What age would you be sending them out at and where to? Keeping the Under 18's together has perhaps helped them to develop together successfully. The current approach has seen more players develop into our first team than was the case previously so it is going in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, room0035 said: Hirst maybe but Clare didn't come through the youth team he was bought in from the Nike academy the same way we brought Nielson, Thorniley, Baker in from others youth teams. Due to the fact previous regimes had chosen to continuously under-invest in the development of the academy set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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