A Tale Of Two Managers

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

Today's victory against Hull throws up a relatively interesting statistical quirk: Carvalhal averaged 1.17 points per game during his 23 league matches in charge this season, which is exactly the same as Luhukay has averaged during his 17 league matches in charge so far.

 

Of course, that only tells part of the story. The eleven players with the most league appearances under Carvalhal this season were:

 

Reach (23 apps)

Hooper (23)

Bannan (21)

Rhodes (20)

Wallace (19)

Fletcher (19)

Westwood (18)

Lees (18)

Hunt (17)

Jones (17)

Lee (15)

 

...whereas the most frequently-used players (with a three-way tie for eleventh place) so far under Luhukay are:

 

Wildsmith (17 apps)

Reach (17)

João (16)

Nuhiu (16)

Venâncio (15)

Boyd (15)

Pelupessy (14)

Fox (13)

Pudil (12)

Palmer (11)

Hunt / Lees / Thorniley (9 apps each)

 

We're looking at very different sets of players which the two managers have been able to rely on, with only Reach, Lees and Hunt offering any kind of consistency between their two reigns.

 

It will come as no surprise to any Wednesday fan, but it's quite remarkable how few of our 'big name' players have been available to Luhukay during his time here: whereas Carvalhal was able to call on Hooper in every single one of his league games, Luhukay hasn't been able to pick him once. In addition to this, the likes of Fletcher, Westwood and Lee, who were frequently playing under Carvalhal, haven't been available for selection once under Luhukay, whilst Wallace and Bannan have barely been able to feature during his tenure either.

 

Instead, Luhukay has had to somehow fashion a team by coaxing previously-unseen performances from out-of-favour strikers such as Nuhiu and João; completing a defence with young and inexperienced players such as Wildsmith and Thorniley; and filling much of the rest of the team with players who were previously seen as backup options or squad players.

 

That he's managed to achieve the same points average as our previous manager given the comparatively limited tools he's had to work with can only be seen as effective management, and hopefully bodes well for our future under Luhukay. Given a full pre-season to bed in his own signings, instil his own methods, and hopefully work with some of our better players, who knows where he could take us?

 

Watch out, Championship, Luhukay's finding his rhythm!

 

[Inspector Lestrade]

3 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

Today's victory against Hull throws up a relatively interesting statistical quirk: Carvalhal averaged 1.17 points per game during his 23 league matches in charge this season, which is exactly the same as Luhukay has averaged during his 17 league matches in charge so far.

 

Of course, that only tells part of the story. The eleven players with the most league appearances under Carvalhal this season were:

 

Reach (23 apps)

Hooper (23)

Bannan (21)

Rhodes (20)

Wallace (19)

Fletcher (19)

Westwood (18)

Lees (18)

Hunt (17)

Jones (17)

Lee (15)

 

...whereas the most frequently-used players (with a three-way tie for eleventh place) so far under Luhukay are:

 

Wildsmith (17 apps)

Reach (17)

João (16)

Nuhiu (16)

Venâncio (15)

Boyd (15)

Pelupessy (14)

Fox (13)

Pudil (12)

Palmer (11)

Hunt / Lees / Thorniley (9 apps each)

 

We're looking at very different sets of players which the two managers have been able to rely on, with only Reach, Lees and Hunt offering any kind of consistency between their two reigns.

 

It will come as no surprise to any Wednesday fan, but it's quite remarkable how few of our 'big name' players have been available to Luhukay during his time here: whereas Carvalhal was able to call on Hooper in every single one of his league games, Luhukay hasn't been able to pick him once. In addition to this, the likes of Fletcher, Westwood and Lee, who were frequently playing under Carvalhal, haven't been available for selection once under Luhukay, whilst Wallace and Bannan have barely been able to feature during his tenure either.

 

Instead, Luhukay has had to somehow fashion a team by coaxing previously-unseen performances from out-of-favour strikers such as Nuhiu and João; completing a defence with young and inexperienced players such as Wildsmith and Thorniley; and filling much of the rest of the team with players who were previously seen as backup options or squad players.

 

That he's managed to achieve the same points average as our previous manager given the comparatively limited tools he's had to work with can only be seen as effective management, and hopefully bodes well for our future under Luhukay. Given a full pre-season to bed in his own signings, instil his own methods, and hopefully work with some of our better players, who knows where he could take us?

 

Watch out, Championship, Luhukay's finding his rhythm!

 

 

 

Nice research

[Jim]

He’s done ok. The situation he inherited was difficult and there was a time when it looked liked the situation would engulf him but he’s hung in there.

 

I don’t think we’ll see a significant changeover in personnel and if we are to do well next season, it’ll be down to what he can get out of players he’s inherited once again.

[Loughborough Owl]

Jos just needs to stick to this 532/352 and not change it like he did at QPR! Under Carlos it was plain to see we weren't a 442 team and 352 would have suited us lol. 

[oldishowl]

Carlos walked away saying he couldn’t motivate the back up players.

In other words he wasn’t up for a fight and walked away to a job he already had lined up.

Jos came in and got the backup players to fight for him.

Sometimes his lack of knowledge of the league has shown but he has done great for us.

 

Good research 

[doubleo]

You've got to also take into account Carlos had been here 2 years, knew the set up, the Championship, and had brought in alot of the players,

Jos came in cold and had to work with what he'd inherited.

Give him time to fashion his own team and tactics and then we can judge him.

[Lord Snooty]

 

Excellent,  factual post ANWTS. 

The job he's done given the resources,  and not doubt the low mood which existed with the less well used players in the camp has been very good.  

 

I for one am hopeful and looking forward to what he might achieve with everyone available and the backing to bring in some of his own men.

 

I know some don't think he's shouty enough in the technical area. 

But I for one think there's an inner bollòcker in there. 

 

I mean look at this picture. You can see the spring is ready to be sprung.

He's like one of those casually dressed middle aged blokes you see drinking outside a flat roofed estate pub. Could go off in a few seconds flat.

 

Oh yes. More to Jos than meets the eye.

[S36 OWL]

9 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

Carlos walked away saying he couldn’t motivate the back up players.

In other words he wasn’t up for a fight and walked away to a job he already had lined up.

Jos came in and got the backup players to fight for him.

Sometimes his lack of knowledge of the league has shown but he has done great for us.

 

Good research 

 

You only have to look at Dave and Joao to see that . 

[OWLERTON GHOST]

Be really grown up if everyone gave him the thumbs up and let him get us going again..

He's kept us fed on bread fish n wine 

Now let's wait eagerly for the banquet ....

 

[RichSheffWeds]

33 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

Today's victory against Hull throws up a relatively interesting statistical quirk: Carvalhal averaged 1.17 points per game during his 23 league matches in charge this season, which is exactly the same as Luhukay has averaged during his 17 league matches in charge so far.

 

Of course, that only tells part of the story. The eleven players with the most league appearances under Carvalhal this season were:

 

Reach (23 apps)

Hooper (23)

Bannan (21)

Rhodes (20)

Wallace (19)

Fletcher (19)

Westwood (18)

Lees (18)

Hunt (17)

Jones (17)

Lee (15)

 

...whereas the most frequently-used players (with a three-way tie for eleventh place) so far under Luhukay are:

 

Wildsmith (17 apps)

Reach (17)

João (16)

Nuhiu (16)

Venâncio (15)

Boyd (15)

Pelupessy (14)

Fox (13)

Pudil (12)

Palmer (11)

Hunt / Lees / Thorniley (9 apps each)

 

We're looking at very different sets of players which the two managers have been able to rely on, with only Reach, Lees and Hunt offering any kind of consistency between their two reigns.

 

It will come as no surprise to any Wednesday fan, but it's quite remarkable how few of our 'big name' players have been available to Luhukay during his time here: whereas Carvalhal was able to call on Hooper in every single one of his league games, Luhukay hasn't been able to pick him once. In addition to this, the likes of Fletcher, Westwood and Lee, who were frequently playing under Carvalhal, haven't been available for selection once under Luhukay, whilst Wallace and Bannan have barely been able to feature during his tenure either.

 

Instead, Luhukay has had to somehow fashion a team by coaxing previously-unseen performances from out-of-favour strikers such as Nuhiu and João; completing a defence with young and inexperienced players such as Wildsmith and Thorniley; and filling much of the rest of the team with players who were previously seen as backup options or squad players.

 

That he's managed to achieve the same points average as our previous manager given the comparatively limited tools he's had to work with can only be seen as effective management, and hopefully bodes well for our future under Luhukay. Given a full pre-season to bed in his own signings, instil his own methods, and hopefully work with some of our better players, who knows where he could take us?

 

Watch out, Championship, Luhukay's finding his rhythm!

 

Great research and post.

 

looking forward to Ramone tells us it’s all nonsense.

 

Puts to bed for anyone with any intelligence that Jos should be given some respect and a chance to have next season before being judged. 

[East Yorks Owl]

23 minutes ago, Loughborough Owl said:

Jos just needs to stick to this 532/352 and not change it like he did at QPR! Under Carlos it was plain to see we weren't a 442 team and 352 would have suited us lol. 

 

Strangely enough we won today against Hull with a back four. Ironically I believe the main reason we lost against Hull at Wembley was because we didn’t play with five in midfield. 

I would agree with you though that a formation with a strong back three and five in midfield should become our default formation. 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

31 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said:

He’s done ok. The situation he inherited was difficult and there was a time when it looked liked the situation would engulf him but he’s hung in there.

 

I don’t think we’ll see a significant changeover in personnel and if we are to do well next season, it’ll be down to what he can get out of players he’s inherited once again.

 

Maybe so. But given what he's managed to get out of Nuhiu and João so far, I can't wait to see what he can do when the likes of Hooper, Fletcher, Forestieri and Lee are available on a regular basis.

[Pale Rider]

31 minutes ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

Be really grown up if everyone gave him the thumbs up and let him get us going again..

He's kept us fed on bread fish n wine 

Now let's wait eagerly for the banquet ....

 

This was my way of thinking for so long pal. I still hope you’re right. But managers tend to have a go to style of play that is used whatever the players available. I have to say under Jos I’m underwhelmed on this front. 

[Dot]

I notice you left FF out of the research,

 

I don't recall us ever conceding 3 goals in 15 minutes under Carlos

 

we are all happy that we are safe but seriously jos is not the man to take us forward next season, his management is dire and one of the main reasons we are safe is because of the absolutely terrible quality of those below us this season.

when we went on that run of 3 points from a potential 30, but never moved positions because of the shocking teams below us

 

I fear the worst if Jos is our manager next seaon

 

 

[OWLERTON GHOST]

3 minutes ago, Pale Rider said:

This was my way of thinking for so long pal. I still hope you’re right. But managers tend to have a go to style of play that is used whatever the players available. I have to say under Jos I’m underwhelmed on this front. 

I know exactly what you mean mate ..

I would hypothetically love to see all our lads fit and raring to go .

Then see how Jos manages us ..

The fact he's unknown to us before he turned up gives it mystery ...

ANWTS's stats in this thread are the clincher for me..

it proves he's done it  with the "stiffs" what carlos couldn't do with the "Racehorses"

[Tommo_]

2 minutes ago, Dot said:

I notice you left FF out of the research,

 

I don't recall us ever conceding 3 goals in 15 minutes under Carlos

 

we are all happy that we are safe but seriously jos is not the man to take us forward next season, his management is dire and one of the main reasons we are safe is because of the absolutely terrible quality of those below us this season.

when we went on that run of 3 points from a potential 30, but never moved positions because of the shocking teams below us

 

I fear the worst if Jos is our manager next seaon

 

 

 

[TrickyTrev]

12 minutes ago, Dot said:

 

I don't recall us ever conceding 3 goals in 15 minutes under Carlos

 

 

No but I do recall us conceding 4 goals against the pigs.

 

I think these stats finally put to bed the argument that Carlos was doing a good job when Luhukay has got the same number of points but with more key players missing through injury.

 

I think it’s obvious that Jos Luhukay is clearly a step up on Carlos Carvalhal.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

11 minutes ago, Dot said:

I notice you left FF out of the research,

 

I don't recall us ever conceding 3 goals in 15 minutes under Carlos

 

we are all happy that we are safe but seriously jos is not the man to take us forward next season, his management is dire and one of the main reasons we are safe is because of the absolutely terrible quality of those below us this season.

when we went on that run of 3 points from a potential 30, but never moved positions because of the shocking teams below us

 

I fear the worst if Jos is our manager next seaon

 

 

As he's only just returning from injury, Forestieri hasn't been among the most used players for either manager, so I didn't mention him, no.

 

You have an interesting take on Luhukay's tenure, but I can't say I agree. He inherited a squad on its knees which was free falling down the league. With what he's had to work with, I think he's done a fine job, and I look forward to seeing what he can do next season when he'll hopefully have at least one hand no longer tied behind his back due to an appalling injury list and a general lack of fitness among many of those declared fit to play.

[daleblue]

Only stat missing which the CC followers may call into question is the opposition, was it top tier teams that CC Managed against, and was it JL only played against

lower placed teams.

If there about the same, then it shows just how good JL has done.

[Nero]

1 hour ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Good post mate.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Peacenocchio