A Tale Of Two Managers

[Beauchief Owl]

8 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

If there's any money to spend at all.

 

The one good thing is, I suspect we'll not be having our pants pulled down in any transfer dealings with Kit-kat going in to bat. I don't think she'll take any prisoners when the spivs try it on.

Totally agree. Anybody who can sell us Wiggins for 750K and then a short time later sell us Fox for a similar amount, has got to be a lot smarter than our previous negotiators.

[NorthernOwl]

You know times are bad when a manager is being praised for averaging 1.17 point per game - essentially relegation form in a normal season. There are certainly mitigating factors for this and he deserves time before we judge him. But I'm surprised people are quite so enthusiastic about the job he has done so far.

 

 

[The Regulator]

JL’s averages:

 

Points from last 17 = 20 (1.18 per game)

Points from last 10 = 13 (1.3 per game)

Points from last 6 = 12 (2 per game)

 

CC’s averages:

 

Points from first 6 = 9 (1.5 per game)

Points from first 10 = 13 (1.3 per game)

Points from first 23 = 27 (1.17 per game)

 

Improvement as players have returned. Couldnt have asked for more than that.

[GY-owl.4]

37 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

You know times are bad when a manager is being praised for averaging 1.17 point per game - essentially relegation form in a normal season. There are certainly mitigating factors for this and he deserves time before we judge him. But I'm surprised people are quite so enthusiastic about the job he has done so far.

 

 

int it nearly 54 points? so not quite relegation form.

 

 i can think of maybe once when a side went down with 53 or 54 points, Peterborough about 6 years ago but Barnsley stayed up on goal difference with the same points.

 

i take your point though,

 

 

What has to be taken into consideration is that Jos would never start a season with the players hes had in this current run, he would also have a pre-season under his belt not to mention knowing the league much better than he did in this run.

to me it all points to a big improvement in the Points Per Game next season.

 

Jos has done well. the big thing hes done wrong is not turn all manic on the touchline or in the media, its all that satisfies some folk.

[Jim]

10 hours ago, hirstys_achilles said:

I really hope that is not the case. History shows we have far too many important players that are not available to play in enough games. Any team serious about promotion has to look at the stats and see any team with this many injury prone players will not realistically get promoted.

 

We’re probably stuck with them as no other club would take them on at the financial level with regards to the fee we would want and the wages the players would want?

[Costello 77]

It's the quality of areNoTwhatTHEYseems OP (almost forensic) that keeps me coming back to Owlstalk.. I appreciate it more this morning over coffee than last night...errr when wine was involved.

Great thread.

 

WTF ®

 

[NorthernOwl]

35 minutes ago, GY-owl.4 said:

int it nearly 54 points? so not quite relegation form.

 

 i can think of maybe once when a side went down with 53 or 54 points, Peterborough about 6 years ago but Barnsley stayed up on goal difference with the same points.

 

i take your point though,

 

 

What has to be taken into consideration is that Jos would never start a season with the players hes had in this current run, he would also have a pre-season under his belt not to mention knowing the league much better than he did in this run.

to me it all points to a big improvement in the Points Per Game next season.

 

Jos has done well. the big thing hes done wrong is not turn all manic on the touchline or in the media, its all that satisfies some folk.

 

Yes absolutely which is why it is too early to judge. But I think its fair to say 1.17 points per game will not be acceptable next season so these factors will have to make a big difference. Every chance that they might but we really don't know. 

 

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

11 hours ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

I don't fear the worst, just mid table mediocrity. 

Not taking anything away from him today, he deserves a lot of credit for us beating a team who were scoring goals for fun.

But until he can eradicate losing games before half time, we'll lose more than we'll win.

Maybe but with a full squad available and a full summer to get his own players, ideas,coaching and fitness regime in place I predict that we'll win more than we lose. Two wins and two defeats trumps four draws anyway. It's the recent wins that have brought us safety. Draws would have seen us still in the mire.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Xxxxxxxxcxcc

[coopswfc76]

13 hours ago, East Yorks Owl said:

 

Strangely enough we won today against Hull with a back four. Ironically I believe the main reason we lost against Hull at Wembley was because we didn’t play with five in midfield. 

I would agree with you though that a formation with a strong back three and five in midfield should become our default formation. 

 

Err we played 

 

Hunt, Venancio, Lees, Thorniley, Boyd 

 

I didn't go school much and I'm not an accountant so don't work with figures all day but I'm sure that's 5.

[Lord Snooty]

Net spend

 

Carlos                             Jos

£35,000,000                  £350,000

[dorian gray]

14 hours ago, East Yorks Owl said:

 

Strangely enough we won today against Hull with a back four. Ironically I believe the main reason we lost against Hull at Wembley was because we didn’t play with five in midfield. 

I would agree with you though that a formation with a strong back three and five in midfield should become our default formation. 

the reason we lost to hull at wembley was the midfield was congested by them, as bruce knew we'd attempt to pick our way through it. adding another player into that mix wouldn't have helped us, we needed width, speed, and a cross to an attack supported by m/f, or as time went on a longer ball with the same m/f support.

bruce used the same two defensive banks of four against us that was widely known to unhinge arsenal, i'm not too disappointed we lost to hull, but i'm bitterly disappointed that we never turned up tactically.

[dorian gray]

13 hours ago, daleblue said:

Only stat missing which the CC followers may call into question is the opposition, was it top tier teams that CC Managed against, and was it JL only played against

lower placed teams.

If there about the same, then it shows just how good JL has done.

i think carlos made some look like 'top teams'.

[dorian gray]

13 hours ago, Dot said:

 

Its an opinion mate

we all have them

its been pointed out many times that CC had the same team as Jos towards the end (the injuries), CC was hampered by the same injuries as Jos was

 

I'll give Jos his due though.....first time I've ever seen a 5-5 formation 

 

 

Jos is the not the man to take us forward

I hope I am wrong but I fear that I am not

you can't be certain of that.

what would you have made of wagner at 'uddersfield before last season started?

i thought carvalhal was a pisspoor appointment, after the first season it looked like i may have been wrong, but i wasn't.

give the bloke his pre season (with no money to pith up against the wall, as we all know who spent that) and see what he achieves, IF we can spend two and a half seasons under a bloke without a second idea in his head, i think we should be capable of giving this one a full season before judging him.

[WestsideOwl]

		JL					CC
12 Jan	Sheffield Utd	0 - 0	Sheffield Wed		24 Sep	Sheffield Wed	2 - 4	Sheffield Utd
20 Jan	Sheffield Wed	0 - 0	Cardiff City		16 Sep	Cardiff City	1 - 1	Sheffield Wed
30 Jan	Middlesbrough	0 - 0	Sheffield Wed		23 Dec	Sheffield Wed	1 - 2	Middlesbrough
3 Feb	Sheffield Wed	1 - 3	Birmingham City		27 Sep	Birmingham City	1 - 0	Sheffield Wed
10 Feb	Barnsley	1 - 1	Sheffield Wed		28 Oct	Sheffield Wed	1 - 1	Barnsley
13 Feb	Sheffield Wed	2 - 0	Derby County		21 Oct	Derby County	2 - 0	Sheffield Wed
20 Feb	Millwall	2 - 1	Sheffield Wed		31 Oct	Sheffield Wed	2 - 1	Millwall
24 Feb	Sheffield Wed	2 - 4	Aston Villa		4 Nov	Aston Villa	1 - 2	Sheffield Wed
3 Mar	Bristol City	4 - 0	Sheffield Wed		18 Nov	Sheffield Wed	0 - 0	Bristol City
6 Mar	Sheffield Wed	1 - 2	Ipswich Town		22 Nov	Ipswich Town	2 - 2	Sheffield Wed
10 Mar	Sheffield Wed	1 - 1	Bolton		14 Oct	Bolton	2 - 1	Sheffield Wed
17 Mar	Leeds Utd	1 - 2	Sheffield Wed		1 Oct	Sheffield Wed	3 - 0	Leeds Utd
30 Mar	Sheffield Wed	4 - 1	Preston		5 Aug	Preston	1 - 0	Sheffield Wed
2 Apr	Sunderland	1 - 3	Sheffield Wed		16 Aug	Sheffield Wed	1 - 1	Sunderland
7 Apr	Sheffield Wed	0 - 1	Fulham		19 Aug	Fulham	0 - 1	Sheffield Wed
10 Apr	QP Rangers	4 - 2	Sheffield Wed		12 Aug	Sheffield Wed	1 - 1	QP Rangers
14 Apr	Hull City	0 - 1	Sheffield Wed		2 Dec	Sheffield Wed	2 - 2	Hull City

 

 

Here's the comparison of the teams played the results. It's somewhat difficult to compare league position given it changes over time so it would be equally possible for JL to have beaten a team above us whereas CC had beaten the same team but when they were below us, or vice-versa. 

 

And for CC's other games:

 

26 Aug	Burton Albion	1 - 1	Sheffield Wed
9 Sep	Sheffield Wed	3 - 1	Nottm Forest
12 Sep	Sheffield Wed	2 - 1	Brentford
25 Nov	Reading	0 - 0	Sheffield Wed
9 Dec	Norwich City	3 - 1	Sheffield Wed
15 Dec	Sheffield Wed	0 - 1	Wolverhampton

 

[East Yorks Owl]

1 hour ago, coopswfc76 said:

 

Err we played 

 

Hunt, Venancio, Lees, Thorniley, Boyd 

 

I didn't go school much and I'm not an accountant so don't work with figures all day but I'm sure that's 5.

Didn’t seem to me that Boyd was playing left wing back. Thorniley was left marking Wilson for pretty much the whole of the first when I was sat in Hulls south stand. On the other side Hunt seemed to be covering the right full back slot for the whole time he was on the pitch. 

Im not saying you’re wrong by the way, it might just be a case of Boyd being unable to do both jobs - the lad seems to be struggling for fitness at the moment.

[coopswfc76]

13 hours ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

I don't fear the worst, just mid table mediocrity. 

Not taking anything away from him today, he deserves a lot of credit for us beating a team who were scoring goals for fun.

But until he can eradicate losing games before half time, we'll lose more than we'll win.

 

Bristol City that's it as Birmingham & QPR were just individual errors so how do you stop them or change what stage of the game they happen in?

[coopswfc76]

16 minutes ago, East Yorks Owl said:

Didn’t seem to me that Boyd was playing left wing back. Thorniley was left marking Wilson for pretty much the whole of the first when I was sat in Hulls south stand. On the other side Hunt seemed to be covering the right full back slot for the whole time he was on the pitch. 

Im not saying you’re wrong by the way, it might just be a case of Boyd being unable to do both jobs - the lad seems to be struggling for fitness at the moment.

 

In fairness Boyd is struggling big time with the role imo this has to be our number 1 priority in the summer a good LB/LWB. 

Because of Fox & Lee injury we don't any alternatives though as Reach legs are needed elsewhere and Penney is on loan.

[East Yorks Owl]

17 minutes ago, coopswfc76 said:

 

In fairness Boyd is struggling big time with the role imo this has to be our number 1 priority in the summer a good LB/LWB. 

Because of Fox & Lee injury we don't any alternatives though as Reach legs are needed elsewhere and Penney is on loan.

 

Agree 100% I’ve personally felt our priority for the last couple of years has been two decent full backs.

[Sergeant Tibbs]

31 minutes ago, coopswfc76 said:

 

Bristol City that's it as Birmingham & QPR were just individual errors so how do you stop them or change what stage of the game they happen in?

Who's responsibility is it to coach players to avoid individual errors.

It's happenened 3 times in the last 2 months. 

At that rate we would lose 10-12 games a season before half time.

People talk about Jos getting us promoted.

No.

 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

3 hours ago, Costello 77 said:

It's the quality of areNoTwhatTHEYseems OP (almost forensic) that keeps me coming back to Owlstalk.. I appreciate it more this morning over coffee than last night...errr when wine was involved.

Great thread.

 

WTF ®

 

 

 

You're too kind!

 

To be honest, it's the ridiculous rumours, Photoshop threads, and comically inane arguments which keep me coming back for the most part.