John Howard Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Part 1 questioned Moore's tactical ability . Last night again raises that question Yes Windass is very rapid , yes he is a goalscorer BUT to forget our passing game ( excellent against Portsmouth) and lump it forward everytime in the hope that he would break through ...was nonsense . Our goal was .....ball on the floor ... then Bannan's skills . Please don't say Sunderland didn't allow us to play our normal game ..they are a useful Div 1 team not Man City Look how Alex Niel has transformed Sunderland ....enough said 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andytrig Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 I was going to give Owlstalk a break after last night knowing what it would be like on here, unfortunately like an adict I'm unable to stop and already back. I get that last night was frustrating and Sunderland made it difficult for us, but we were level on aggregate at 92 minutes. And as for wrong tactics all season? Seriously??? If our tatctics were wrong all season how on earth did we pick up 48 points in the second half of the season? 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, John Howard said: Look how Alex Niel has transformed Sunderland ....enough said He's only had 16 games in charge Could he do it over a full season? Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 We can't have had the wrong tactics all season and amassed 85 points. That simply doesn't make sense. Yeah, there is perhaps an issue when we are not allowed to play our natural game, but come on. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnchanter Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 We didn't have the wrong tactics all season but something we did have is a lack of identity or grit away from home. We never had a style where we could hold on comfortably when it mattered and also dominate/control/manage games. Obviously we did it at times otherwise we couldn't have achieved 85 points but ultimately we didn't have it in the play offs. Lots to learn from for next year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodwickOwl Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Having to put up with that t0ss for 70 minutes of booting a long ball up front with no wide support was enough for me. Biggest game in a long time and we played friggin long ball and didn't make a change until near the 70 minute mark, wow. Christ, get shut of him now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Just now, TheEnchanter said: We didn't have the wrong tactics all season but something we did have is a lack of identity or grit away from home. We never had a style where we could hold on comfortably when it mattered and also dominate/control/manage games. Obviously we did it at times otherwise we couldn't have achieved 85 points but ultimately we didn't have it in the play offs. Lots to learn from for next year. Pretty much. When we were on it and allowed to be on it, I don't think there were many better teams in the division. We seemed to be particularly good against other "footballing" sides, just look at our record against some of them. However, we have struggled all season when teams come to stifle, play a low block and so forth. Either end up passing it aimlessly or hoofing it which really doesn't suit us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0742 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 What impressed me about neil was that before the game he said they sent the same team out to play the same way because of his plan of how to beat us. Moore didn't do that, he had different tactics for home and away and used different players. That said to me we went to sunderland to grind out a draw, i'd have preferred us to take our game to them. Additionally, leaving palmer on the left side of the 3 was a very poor tactical move when NML came on, johnson is far better and getting back and defending than NML, Storey naturally sits narrow as a more traditional CB, so we were always going to be leaving gaps when NL pushed on that palmer would have naturally covered better. Our right hand side was far too exposed defensively when NML came on and a simple switch would have negated that. That's what Moore should be seeing and yet, all season inplay tactics like that have been missed and ultimately cost, especially late in games when players are tired. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauchief Owl Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 No question bout it, the tactics over the two legs were poor. Everything wrong in the first part of the season recurred in those ties. Will he do better next season with in all likelihood a weaker squad.? Final thought, Sunderland replaced their manager when well placed in the top six. A difficult decision to make but it proved a good one. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorturner Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 17 minutes ago, andytrig said: I was going to give Owlstalk a break after last night knowing what it would be like on here, unfortunately like an adict I'm unable to stop and already back. I get that last night was frustrating and Sunderland made it difficult for us, but we were level on aggregate at 92 minutes. And as for wrong tactics all season? Seriously??? If our tatctics were wrong all season how on earth did we pick up 48 points in the second half of the season? My recollection is that a dressing room inquest after Cheltenham away led to a more attacking approach after weeks of tippy tippy across the field in front of defenders under orders to play it out from the back. This approach drove supporters nuts until it was changed. More than a hint the players thought that attackers were not getting enough from those behind them, hence too many draws. Big tactical change in late Autumn therefore. If you have better players, and are playing little teams, you can still pick up points. Once Berahino hit form and NML was acquired ( two Championship level players) Gregory flourished and we had a very good early Spring but playing wing backs who cannot do the complete job and playing it out from the back continued to put us under pressure even at Fleetwood. Perhaps this is why DM gambled on Windass for a goal and was cautious at Sunderland and for 70 minutes last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernOwl Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 35 minutes ago, John Howard said: Part 1 questioned Moore's tactical ability . Last night again raises that question Yes Windass is very rapid , yes he is a goalscorer BUT to forget our passing game ( excellent against Portsmouth) and lump it forward everytime in the hope that he would break through ...was nonsense . Our goal was .....ball on the floor ... then Bannan's skills . Please don't say Sunderland didn't allow us to play our normal game ..they are a useful Div 1 team not Man City Look how Alex Niel has transformed Sunderland ....enough said Do you think lumping it forward was an instruction from Moore? I think the players looked very nervous and resorted to this rather than it being a purposeful tactic. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 22 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said: Do you think lumping it forward was an instruction from Moore? I think the players looked very nervous and resorted to this rather than it being a purposeful tactic. BPF should have hit the corners with the long balls , belting down the middle was like feeding buns to a Elephant the way Baaht was dominating the centre area Plus their midfield reacted quicker to any loose ball Moore had no idea how to counter act their left hand side who ran riot both games 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatter Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 1 hour ago, @owlstalk said: He's only had 16 games in charge Could he do it over a full season? You think it’s a 16 game new manager bounce.? The way they played over the 2 legs I reckon there’s more to it than that. Sunderland had just enough of an edge over us because they were disciplined and skilled in the time wasting dark side of the game at the crucial time after we scored. That’s the Alex Neil way. We’ve seen it before with Preston. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunny1968 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Neil has transformed Sunderland into a functional shithousing ream that in general scrapes results by the odd goal. That is ok if you keep winning. The Mackams will soon get fed up of this boring soporific approach when results take a downturn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgey The Owl Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Before the 1st leg, When I saw Neil had won playoffs before with Hamilton and Norwich, I instantly thought 's**t', he's got experience at grinding it out in a high pressure situation with high stakes, something Moore doesn't have unfortunately. The writing was on the wall from the start. Crazy to think that the 5th and 6th placed teams in the table are going to Wembley. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 1 hour ago, 0742 said: What impressed me about neil was that before the game he said they sent the same team out to play the same way because of his plan of how to beat us. Moore didn't do that, he had different tactics for home and away and used different players. That said to me we went to sunderland to grind out a draw, i'd have preferred us to take our game to them. Additionally, leaving palmer on the left side of the 3 was a very poor tactical move when NML came on, johnson is far better and getting back and defending than NML, Storey naturally sits narrow as a more traditional CB, so we were always going to be leaving gaps when NL pushed on that palmer would have naturally covered better. Our right hand side was far too exposed defensively when NML came on and a simple switch would have negated that. That's what Moore should be seeing and yet, all season inplay tactics like that have been missed and ultimately cost, especially late in games when players are tired. This absolutely. I'm not crying for Moore out and cover him in sackcloth & ashes and all that, but it it the tactical side of his game that worries me. We seem to have in essence one way of playing, and if sides are in our faces giving us little time, he can't / is reluctant to make the changes. He should have a plan B at least. Thats my worry and always has been. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Moore isn’t going anywhere this summer that is pretty certain He needs to figure out how to get results at places like Cheltenham, Wimbledon, Cambridge, Morcambe, Gillingham and Lincoln because it’s games like that against lower table sides that have cost us automatic promotion this season 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredmciverslovechild Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Django said: Moore isn’t going anywhere this summer that is pretty certain He needs to figure out how to get results at places like Cheltenham, Wimbledon, Cambridge, Morcambe, Gillingham and Lincoln because it’s games like that against lower table sides that have cost us automatic promotion this season Undoubtedly the games against Gillingham, Lincoln and Shrewsbury have cost us. Six games and just four points out of 18. Rotherham got 11 points from those games; Wigan got 15. It made the doubles over Wigan and MKD almost irrelevant. We have to start putting these sorts of games to bed. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Starting windass was a ridiculous decision Yes berahino was underwhelming in the first leg but his goalscoring return deserved him the start last night Windass didnt deserve that start and he didnt justify it either He thinks he is better than he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 2 hours ago, John Howard said: Look how Alex Niel has transformed Sunderland ....enough said In the period since he has been there we have three more points than them (we did play an extra game for the sake of accuracy) and gone up three places whilst they actually dropped one. Had we performed anything like we have for the last few months, in all likelihood we would have beaten them. And even as poor as we were, only an injury time goal overcame us. Our records are practically identical, yet they are transformed and we are hopeless? Some people are getting a perverse kind of joy out of this to the point where they see what they want, regardless of whether it's there or not. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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