Its why some still have doubts about Moore

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

32 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

It was in reply to a post saying that the "this squad should be doing better than seventh" posts should be vetoed as our squad isn't actually that good and we're doing well to ve where we are with our meagre playing staff.

The post was “7th is simply not good enough with this squad and budget.” Yet I haven’t seen anyone who hides behind this cliché actually critique the six squads above us or compare the relative budgets. They, in effect, claim we are underachieving based on relative quality and cost but don’t back up their argument with any comparators. 
One argument is that we have Bannan, Iorfa, Hunt, Dean etc so should be walking the league. Another is we have a squad comprising loanees, rejects and failed Championship players. 
For what it’s worth I think we have a good League 1 squad but not outstanding. I think we are average in the attacking positions. 
Not sure where your comments about “meagre playing staff” comes from

[kobayashi]

2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

Is it possible for those saying Moore is underachieving with the squad at his disposal to take a look at this photo of the squad that Francis had and not be hypocritical about it?

Let's see...

yeah...Francis hugely underperformed with a 22 man squad bursting with with PL stars such as David Johnson, Peter Shirtliff, Julian Watts, Phil King., Gordon Watson, Nigel Jemson, Graham Hyde and a 36 year old Viv Anderson.

[@owlstalk]

6 minutes ago, kobayashi said:

yeah...Francis hugely underperformed with a 22 man squad bursting with with PL stars such as David Johnson, Peter Shirtliff, Julian Watts, Phil King., Gordon Watson, Nigel Jemson, Graham Hyde and a 36 year old Viv Anderson.

 

 

I know

That's why he was rightly booted out of our club

[Tewkesbury]

21 minutes ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

The post was “7th is simply not good enough with this squad and budget.” Yet I haven’t seen anyone who hides behind this cliché actually critique the six squads above us or compare the relative budgets. They, in effect, claim we are underachieving based on relative quality and cost but don’t back up their argument with any comparators. 
One argument is that we have Bannan, Iorfa, Hunt, Dean etc so should be walking the league. Another is we have a squad comprising loanees, rejects and failed Championship players. 
For what it’s worth I think we have a good League 1 squad but not outstanding. I think we are average in the attacking positions. 
Not sure where your comments about “meagre playing staff” comes from

You can compare v other teams, or you can hold up the squad v itself.

 

We proved that we have a squad, that, understrength, can out fight and press any side in this division and grind out wins.

But time and again, we grind out a cracking, hardworking, pressing display (Sunderland, Wigan, etc.) where we defend from the front and frustrate opponents, then the next game we go back to tippy tap no press lazy football and drop points.

 

It's the side itself that's proven it's better than it's position, but DM keeps on going back to his innefective closed up backheels and flicks.

 

He's put all of his eggs in the Gregory/Windass basket and he's not going to change it for anything. All of the tinkering is to try and make it work until Windass is back. 1 or 2 of the other strikers could score 10 in the next two games and would still get dropped the minute Windass gets a boot on, as that's the plan and he's sticking to it.

[parajack]

1 hour ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

Relax cherub Not good for your blood pressure. 
Critique of the squad is of course subjective and you are correct in terms of the origin of our squad. 
Where your argument falls down is the introduction of “CONTEXT” Actually pretty funny and ironic that you choose to emphasise in capitals

When stating we have the best or the biggest then the context has to be a comparison with something worse or smaller. That’s why it makes little sense to use these tired clichés without context. 
Anyway, there endeth the lesson. Glad to be able to help. 
For what it’s worth, I also find DMs selections baffling. (I think that’s the point you’re struggling to make lower down your post ???) In addition I think that other managers have outperformed DM tactically  and that DM rarely positively changes the outcome of games with his substitutions. I have posted these views many times on this “FORUM”

Patronise away doesn’t add to debate does it? You characterise other peoples views as unworthy and boring but presumably find your own views as unarguable? You agree when challenged by me,that opinion is indeed subjective and not a matter of fact AT ALL (few more capitals for you) You characterising someone’s critique as cliched because you don’t agree with it is arrogant .In this thread alone there is extensive explanation and context to peoples critique,giving plenty of context.Some have even gone into salary’s and provided figures & provided source background for player transfers.

So unlike you I don’t post to give ‘lessons’. But for fun and enjoyment

Sadly your posts provide niether 

Now save your insults I’ve seen your previous posts I replied to your last one and you didn’t like it did you? Stung a bit?

Thats ok I understand just do better next time eh? Just thought I would patronise you see how you like it…

[@owlstalk]

Can you guys get a room and debate the actual topic instead of your obvious love for each other?

Ta

[parajack]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

Can you guys get a room and debate the actual topic instead of your obvious love for each other?

Ta

Yes fair enough needed saying I won’t repost to him 

[edinburghowl]

Purely for the end of season form I’m happy with Moore sticking around. He seems to have turned a corner and managed to get a bit of consistency (last weekend excepted) and I think the on pitch side is moving in the right direction. 

If we fail to get into the playoffs though then he can’t have any complaints about getting fired. That should be the absolute minimum acceptable standard for us.

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, edinburghowl said:

Purely for the end of season form I’m happy with Moore sticking around. He seems to have turned a corner and managed to get a bit of consistency (last weekend excepted) and I think the on pitch side is moving in the right direction. 

If we fail to get into the playoffs though then he can’t have any complaints about getting fired. That should be the absolute minimum acceptable standard for us.

 

It would just be so 'Sheffield Wednesday' to keep Carlos when he was on a downward spiral for so long, and then fire Darren Moore as he's in the form of his life

[edinburghowl]

12 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

It would just be so 'Sheffield Wednesday' to keep Carlos when he was on a downward spiral for so long, and then fire Darren Moore as he's in the form of his life

That’s a very fair point. I do however think that if we miss out on the playoffs Moore will probably expect to have conversations about his future with the owner. He will know it’s coming but I’m confident we will finish in the playoffs. I believe in Darren and the team.
 

Football (like it or not) is a results business and if we don’t finish top 6, the season will have been a failure. 

[Dutch McLovin]

On 23/04/2022 at 18:47, 4evaowl said:

We do struggle against these type of teams but, unlike yesteryear not many sides are like that in League 1 - I've been surprised how many teams play decent football (they mostly struggle in the final third for quality, that's all).

 

Today he put out a more physical 11 than normal but WW are masters at this type of game. We clearly aren't.

Do you not think this is the problem!?

 

Were more worried about what WW bring to the table than what we can.

If we were to have played our best team and played our game on the floor through the thirds and get it wide to Hunt and Johnson to cross, and worried about what they could possibly do to stop us then maybe we could have dominated more of the ball negating there long ball better, if we’re dominating they will drop back meaning when the do go long Vokes would most likely be isolated and it’s a lot easier to deal with.

it’s the negative mentality that we set up with that’s the issue. 

 

 

[Big Jack]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

 

It would just be so 'Sheffield Wednesday' to keep Carlos when he was on a downward spiral for so long, and then fire Darren Moore as he's in the form of his life

And that is concerning.

[room0035]

3 hours ago, kobayashi said:

yeah...Francis hugely underperformed with a 22 man squad bursting with with PL stars such as David Johnson, Peter Shirtliff, Julian Watts, Phil King., Gordon Watson, Nigel Jemson, Graham Hyde and a 36 year old Viv Anderson.

I know finishing 13th in England top flight massively under performing. Darren Moore team currently sit 51st and probably 48th is the best he can do.

 

I would happily take a few season of mid table in the premier league.

[sheffielddart]

We have a midfield of Byers, Luongo and Bannan that works, Johnson and Hunt playi as wing backs  and that works. We have issues (because of injuries) at Centre Back and up-front (because of Berahino’s inconsistency). I don’t understand why you’d not play the parts of the team that actually work well in such an important match. That’s what causes the doubts.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

2 minutes ago, sheffielddart said:

We have a midfield of Byers, Luongo and Bannan that works, Johnson and Hunt playi as wing backs  and that works. We have issues (because of injuries) at Centre Back and up-front (because of Berahino’s inconsistency). I don’t understand why you’d not play the parts of the team that actually work well in such an important match. That’s what causes the doubts.

 

Without knowing how the players were feeling, how they've been in training since the last match, or what advice is being given by the medical staff, us fans are always just going to be speculating, aren't we?

[sheffielddart]

2 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Without knowing how the players were feeling, how they've been in training since the last match, or what advice is being given by the medical staff, us fans are always just going to be speculating, aren't we?

I guess so.

[megsonstheman]

8 hours ago, striker said:

True, at times I'd like to see more urgency, but the players seem to value his calm demeanor and we've seen more mental resilience this season than we have for a while. 

 

I think we are a more robust team under Moore, but agree that drift in games needs to be addressed. Sometimes the players need a rocket up their arse when games are running away from us. 

Moore has no backbone.....he seems afraid to stand up to players. Saturday's performance was poor all round yet he comes out with " a moments lack of concentration cost us"....utter bo$$ocks. We created nothing of note, the players are taking the ******** . He picks them. Do you think big jack or wilko would let them get away with a performance like that! I want a manager who is going to tell it as it is and players facing consequences.

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, megsonstheman said:

Moore has no backbone.....he seems afraid to stand up to players.  

I'd absolutely love to hear what you mean by this, and a few examples?

[daveyboy66]

15 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

I'd absolutely love to hear what you mean by this, and a few examples?

Don't hold your breath 

[SallyCinnamon]

8 hours ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

This is not a new problem either. It's been happening for years.

 

Many of the 'championship standard' players that Moore inherited were players that people wanted rid of last season because they were 'mentally weak' and 'not good enough'.

 

I guess these types of issue are not fixed overnight.

No not at all. When I look back at what a mess we were after last season, I’d have been pleasantly surprised if you’d said we’d finish 7th 11 months ago. I genuinely thought we’d be bottom half of the table.

 

But in the flip side, we could so easily be top 2 if it wasn’t for late equalisers etc. That’s what’s frustrating. The quality we’ve shown second half of the season means we’ll kick ourselves if we don’t go up.