Its why some still have doubts about Moore

[parajack]

1 minute ago, pat blondeau said:

I’ve never suggested they’ve a team made up a big fees but they did spend some fees which we couldn’t do.

 

If we could have spent 500k on a striker like they did with Stewart it would have made a difference this season.

 

The last player we signed for over £1m was Joost van Aken in 2017. That’s some reflection on the owner when a club of Wednesday’s size has been unable to spend £1m on a player for 5 years now 

Good point

[Nick the Owl]

Got to love threads like this, classic Owlstalk.

 

Last week we were dreaming up automatics and now, because we lost 1 nil away to a team in the play offs ONE WEEK later, there's calls for Moore's head.

 

All of this whilst the play offs are still in our own hands with 2 games left, bizarre timing.

 

Why not wait and see if we do or don't make it and then those who want can say I told you so?

[Tewkesbury]

15 minutes ago, paulrs said:

I was very critical of Moore in the first half of the season due to some simple errors in judgement, tinkering with selections and formations, playing players out of position, the habit of conceding late goals and fairly turgid football.

But I have to say he seems to have learned from many of his early mistakes, the form in recent months has been as good as anybody's and not only that the team has a real togetherness, we've adopted a pleasing, attacking style of play and made Hillsborough a fortress. And all against a backdrop of major ongoing injury problems.

The issue is that these problems are flaring up again.

 

The injury crisis started the run of good form (the only reason we're still in contention), since he got his players back, we're back where we were prior.

Conceding late goals, closed up play, dropping points. We don't win in the first 15, we don't win.

 

If we hadn't been scoring from corners and the penalty, we'd be nowhere near the playoffs.

The only open play goal in the last 4 games was the goal of the season.

 

We were slating teams for nicking points from set pieces earlier in the season, now that's what we're doing.

 

We've gone backwards, not forwards.

[0114]

2 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

I’ve never suggested they’ve a team made up a big fees but they did spend some fees which we couldn’t do.

 

If we could have spent 500k on a striker like they did with Stewart it would have made a difference this season.

 

The last player we signed for over £1m was Joost van Aken in 2017. That’s some reflection on the owner when a club of Wednesday’s size has been unable to spend £1m on a player for 5 years now 

Luongo in 2019 was reportedly £1m. So we have just as many £1m players in our team as Sunderland. 
 

We spent over £500k on Paterson who is likely on more wage wise than Stewart. 
 

Sunderland lost their best striker to Wigan because they were prepared to pay him more. 

[pat blondeau]

2 minutes ago, 0114 said:

Luongo in 2019 was reportedly £1m. So we have just as many £1m players in our team as Sunderland. 
 

We spent over £500k on Paterson who is likely on more wage wise than Stewart. 
 

Sunderland lost their best striker to Wigan because they were prepared to pay him more. 

There was a thread on here which sounded plausible that Cardiff are still paying the majority of Paterson’s wage until the end of this season 

[Big Jack]

12 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

The change to 352 had sod all to do with injuries. The injuries came in that game or after.

 

It was to keep the 3 man midfield and give Gregory a strike partner as he couldn't hack it alone up front.

 

It was an offensive change.

 

I'm pretty sure that 352 was unsuitable for the wide forwards and wingers that made up most of DM's signings.

I never said it did.DM made the change and his decision has proved effective improving results.  Credit to DM.

It seems that people are reluctant to praise him when he has made the right decision but many quickly to jump on him with many spurious claims about his managerial ability

 

[Tewkesbury]

12 minutes ago, Asio otus said:

I never said it did.DM made the change and his decision has proved effective improving results.  Credit to DM.

It seems that people are reluctant to praise him when he has made the right decision but many quickly to jump on him with many spurious claims about his managerial ability

 

This isn't about improving results, it's about players playing out of position with tactics and formations they're unsuited for.

 

Wide forwards and wingers are pretty much useless in a 352.

[NorthernOwl]

35 minutes ago, 0114 said:

Your absolutely spot on. 
 

Marvin Johnson was wanted by Hull in the Championship. We got him. 
 

Cardiff & Blackpool were reported to have missed out on Jack Hunt. 
 

Bournemouth & Birmingham were supposedly in the BPF race and he ended up here. 
 

The Star reported we beat a Championship club to sign Adeniran. 
 

Then Bannan who signed a new deal while relegation was still possible. You would assume we offered him something he couldn’t decline. 
 

We offered Byers & Gregory enough to leave Championship teams while under contract.
 

On top of that we have Iorfa, Luongo, Windass & Paterson who we all paid fees for as a Championship club so safe to assume even if their money went down slightly they will still be well paid significantly well in L1. 

 

Then we had loan deals of players like Wing, Dean, Shodipo & Storey who all have contracts at Championship clubs. 
 

I don’t get the hysteria in thinking Wednesday most likely have the biggest wage budget in the division. I don’t get why that would offend anybody so I wouldn’t really get into it with other fans.

 

I also don’t think it’s unfair to judge us based off our spend. It does matter and it will matter to Chansiri. Look at Ipswich & Sunderland who also most likely are amongst the highest in wages have both changed managers because the clubs weren’t happy with their position in the division. 

 

I would definitely take reports that we beat off chanpionship competition to sign those players with a huge pinch of salt.

 

Even if true they will have been offered a role as backup squad fillers on much reduced wages to what they were on previously.

 

You are right though that their wages will be still be high by league 1 standards.

[0114]

8 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

There was a thread on here which sounded plausible that Cardiff are still paying the majority of Paterson’s wage until the end of this season 

I personally wouldn’t count an Owlstalk thread as plausible and I can’t seem to find anything credible to back up that claim.

 

I would be astounded if that was true, I just don’t see what Cardiff gain out of paying a majority of a players wages that isn’t here anymore. 
 

Gone a little off track from the original point I was making anyhow. 

[Guest Jack the Hat]

1 hour ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

its not just those though. It's pretty much the whole squad. A few other examples:

 

Byers was under contract at championship Swansea and we signed him presumably matching his existing contract otherwise he wouldn't have wanted to come.

Ditto Marvin Johnson from Middlesborough.

BFP is the highest paid player in our squad, unclear what % of his wages we're paying Burnley but it will likely be 5 figures a week.

Dele-Bashiru turned down a deal with Man City to come here because he wanted a chance of first team football but you'd assume our contract wasn't a million miles off what City offered him as an academy player, and that won't be cheap.

Dean is a championship player signed for £2m on championship wages and we will probably be paying the majority of them.

Hunt has spent a decade in the championship and comes here, he's probably on a high 4 figure wage.

Mendez-Laing the same as Hunt.

Berahino earned a fortune at Stoke and West Brom, he won't have come here to play for 2-3k a week either.

 

People are underestimating how big the wage bill is. While its true that some of the highest earners have been injured, its the whole squad on big money. The teams in the bottom half are literally paying 10% of what we do and we're dropping points against them, its embarrassing. Even the likes of Sunderland and Ipswich aren't paying the wages we are.

 

We have the highest wage bill in the league by some distance and should have been going for autos this season. Unclear why so many people are satisfied if we finish 7th and want to make excuses for the manager, but it is what it is.

^^^ This is both true and well articulated. The thread is about why people have doubts about the manager. Despite not being able to sign players the combination of high wages and playing for a big club has drawn those player here. We should be challenging for Top 2 in what is a poor league, but we aren't. This season Chansiri has not been the problem Moore has, in my opinion. A half decent manager with experience - lets say Appleton, off the top of my head - takes us up. My big concern is if we don't go up but still stick with Moore. For me that is the nightmare scenario.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Jack the Hat

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Jack the Hat said:

 A half decent manager with experience - lets say Appleton, off the top of my head - takes us up. 

 

 

1) The season isn't over yet - we're still in with a chance of promotion

2) Appleton??

[0114]

Just now, NorthernOwl said:

 

I would definitely take reports that we beat off chanpionship competition to sign those players with a huge pinch of salt.

 

Even if true they will have been offered a role as backup squad fillers on much reduced wages to what they were on previously.

 

You are right though that their wages will be still be high by league 1 standards.

I did my research before posting. It’s more than one credible source reporting these rumours.
 

The Jack Hunt battle was reported by The Sheffield Star & Pete O’Rourke who posts on Football Insider. 
 

The Marvin Johnson story was reported by Yorkshire Live claiming Hull, Millwall & Blackpool all held interest in Johnson. With Hull Daily Mail also backing up the story that Hull wanted Johnson 

 

BPF was rumoured to have interest from Birmingham & Bournemouth. This was reported by Alan Nixon. 
 

I just don’t think it’s as far fetched as some believe that we most likely have the biggest wage budget and I’m struggling to see why some are so emotional about this possibly being true. It will likely not be the longer we stay in the division, but it’s not uncommon that an established Championship side that’s been relegated will likely have the biggest budget. 

[Beany71]

1 hour ago, pat blondeau said:

You think Wigan, Rotherham and Mk would all take our starting 11 over theirs?

 

In the league 1 team of the season there’s 3 Rotherham players, 2 Wigan players, 2 MK players and 1 Wednesday player 

Do you think they would take our manager over theirs?

 

I believe if DM would have been in charge of any of those 3 from the start of the season they wouldn't be in the chase for automatic promotion. Just my opinion.

[pat blondeau]

4 minutes ago, Beany71 said:

Do you think they would take our manager over theirs?

 

I believe if DM would have been in charge of any of those 3 from the start of the season they wouldn't be in the chase for automatic promotion. Just my opinion.

No probably not but it’s not really a suitable comparison with Warne.

 

Warne has been manager at Rotherham since 2016, he’s built that team and knows the players and the club inside out. Rotherham have virtually the same side that got promoted from this league two seasons ago.

 

Look at the turn over of Wednesday players and managers over the same period.

 

I’m not saying Moore is the greatest manager in the world by any means but he seems to get stick from some on here whatever he does.

 

And just my opinion but a lot of our fans think that our squad is better than it actually is 

[striker]

Difficult to compare managers, players because of the expectation levels. 

 

The only other comparable club in this league is Sunderland.

 

We've seen time and again players and managers buckle under the pressure. To be fair to Moore he hasn't.

 

With respect, managing the likes of Rotherham, MK Dons or Wigan nothing like the pressure a Wednesday manager  (or player) is under to win every week, and win playing well...the messiah if you win, dare to draw questions will be asked and lose, utter Sh*t, let's debate who else is available.

 

The only one I would suggest capable of that step up is Paul Warne and even then with no certainly of success. 

 

Personally, I'm comfortable with Moore, whether we are promoted or not. 

 

 

[Roy Of The Roasters]

20 minutes ago, 0114 said:

 

I just don’t think it’s as far fetched as some believe that we most likely have the biggest wage budget and I’m struggling to see why some are so emotional about this possibly being true.

 

No one is getting emotional about it. It's just that it's being presented as indisputable fact, when in actual fact it's based on nothing more than guesswork, assumptions and unsubstantiated gossip.

[upperwinngardensowl]

1 minute ago, striker said:

Difficult to compare managers, players because of the expectation levels. 

 

The only other comparable club in this league is Sunderland.

 

We've seen time and again players and managers buckle under the pressure. To be fair to Moore he hasn't.

 

With respect, managing the likes of Rotherham, MK Dons or Wigan nothing like the pressure a Wednesday manager  (or player) is under to win every week, and win playing well...the messiah if you win, dare to draw questions will be asked and lose, utter Sh*t, let's debate who else is available.

 

The only one I would suggest capable of that step up is Paul Warne and even then with no certainly of success. 

 

Personally, I'm comfortable with Moore, whether we are promoted or not. 

 

 

I think actually that might be part of the problem. Moore doesn’t seem to buckle under pressure, and stays calm and even tempered on the face of it no matter what happens on the pitch.
The problem is it’s the players who have sometimes either buckled under the pressure or just let things drift in games. 
I think showing a bit of pressure and emotion might sometimes, but not always, be of benefit. 
 

[thesouthowl]

Sheffield Wednesday have a total of 59 players in their home squad. The highest earning player in the squad is Bailey Peacock-Farrell earning £28,000 per week.

Sheffield Wednesday play in the Sky Bet League One, the second division of mens professional football in England.

The teams total wage bill is:

£10,131,160 per year

£194,830 per week

[upperwinngardensowl]

Just now, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

No one is getting emotional about it. It's just that it's being presented as indisputable fact, when in actual fact it's based on nothing more than guesswork, assumptions and unsubstantiated gossip.

I think when you look at the players we’ve got, the clubs and the divisions they have come from, coupled with the history of some of the wages we’ve paid in the recent past,then I think the guesswork’s pretty reliable. 

[upperwinngardensowl]

Just now, thesouthowl said:

Sheffield Wednesday have a total of 59 players in their home squad. The highest earning player in the squad is Bailey Peacock-Farrell earning £28,000 per week.

Sheffield Wednesday play in the Sky Bet League One, the second division of mens professional football in England.

The teams total wage bill is:

£10,131,160 per year

£194,830 per week

Those facts lose a bit of credibility when it says that league one is the second division of mens football in England.