Its why some still have doubts about Moore

[SiJ]

You know, we do have a massive game on Tuesday night. 

 

Season defining. 

 

Whilst we are all frustrated with what happened on Saturday, perhaps we should live the full blown post-mortem/meltdowns until this season is done? 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by SiJ

[@owlstalk]

10 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

He's the manager, that's what he's supposed to do.

 

We're in league one. All of the teams are full of unwanted, injury prone players, that's why they're down here.

Fitness is all down to DM.

 

But what about the context of the situation Moore has been in 

[WorrallOwl17]

Why do people say it's a team made up of crocks and freebies as if it's a bad team or something? Think Wigan, Rotherham and MK would take pretty much all of our starting 11 over theirs, it's just been managed poorly for half of the season leaving us playing catch up. Even the teams going up in the top 2 would take most of our players i'm sure of it. 

[SwellOwl]

12 minutes ago, SiJ said:

You know, we do have a massive game on Tuesday night. 

 

Season defining. 

 

Whilst we are all frustrated with what happened on Saturday, perhaps we should live the full blown post-mortem/meltdowns until this season is done? 

 

 

 

Said something similar yesterday. 

 

The band of brothers who declared "I told you so" can surely wait till the season is over. They'll have a whole summer about how right there were about Moore if we don't go up.

 

Would be a crazy thought, why don't all supporters put views to one side and back the team in last 2 games of regular season?!

[Tewkesbury]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

 

Nicely skipping over the context of the situation Moore has been in 

 

Amazing 

How?

 

In context he has the squad depth and quality to account for the injuries.

If he's put all of his eggs in one basket that's down to him.

 

He's the manager. His job is to manage the resources at his disposal. Players are resources.

 

Luongo was injured in the last minute of his first game back after injury.

Windass was injured just after subbing Kamberi, one of our fittest players. 

That's on him.

 

His best results have come when he said himself that the team picks itself due to injury, proving that the backups are good enough.

 

Read the DM in out threads. The biggest reason for keeping next season is his recruitment, not his tactics or game management.

 

Make up your mind. He's either a bad manager with good recruitment, or a good manager with bad recruitment. 

By your arguments, he can't be good at both.

 

Yes, he's had issues, but they're largely of his own making.

[83owl]

2 hours ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

Really, really, really wish the moderators would veto this clichéd, indoctrinated clap-trap. So boring having this rolled out as a stick to beat the manager and the club with. 
Not one purveyor of this propaganda poop can provide proof of our wage bill in comparison to others or critique our squad against other promotion candidates. 
We don’t have a single player in the top of the scorers or defenders charts. Bannan features for goals and assists but is by no means stand-out. None of us has a clue what other teams pay their players. 

Bannan, Windass, Paterson, Hutchinson, Iorfa we’re all signed on championship contracts. They may or may not have relegation clauses. I think Luongo was signed for about £1m so will be on a decent wage, plus the playing squad is huge. You really think the likes of Rotherham, Oxford, Plymouth and Wigan are paying out anything close to us?

[parajack]

11 minutes ago, SwellOwl said:

 

Said something similar yesterday. 

 

The band of brothers who declared "I told you so" can surely wait till the season is over. They'll have a whole summer about how right there were about Moore if we don't go up.

 

Would be a crazy thought, why don't all supporters put views to one side and back the team in last 2 games of regular season?!

People expressing ALL views on this Forum are Wednesdayites some lifelong in my case 60 Years I will be sat in the North stand for our last game. with my Son cheering on the team and Club I have supported and loved for 60 Years Being disappointed and saying we could(and SHOULD) have done much better doesn’t make you a bad person.I said I wouldn’t return to S6 until the Chairman left  but I can’t sit at home any more

[daveyboy66]

3 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

How many of our promotion rivals suffered injuries which deprived them of their best attacker for all but a handful of games, and their best (only) defensive midfielder and three or four of their senior centre-backs for a large chunk of the season, though?

 

We never saw Windass return on a consistent basis of course, but since we recruited some centre backs to help alleviate our defensive crisis in the January window, we've done pretty well, overall:

 

 

Would we want to ditch the obvious progress that's been made since we stopped having to make do and mend at the back, or does our form since then suggest a manager who's getting a tune out of a strong (almost fully-fit) squad?

You'll never get anywhere on here wi' facts 

[pat blondeau]

16 minutes ago, 83owl said:

Bannan, Windass, Paterson, Hutchinson, Iorfa we’re all signed on championship contracts. They may or may not have relegation clauses. I think Luongo was signed for about £1m so will be on a decent wage, plus the playing squad is huge. You really think the likes of Rotherham, Oxford, Plymouth and Wigan are paying out anything close to us?

Windass and Iorfa will be two of the highest earners in the squad (and in the league) but they’ve barely been fit so what use have they been to Moore?

 

Paterson will be on a big wage for league 1 but I think most of us would agree he isn’t worth that wage and he wasn’t signed by Moore.

 

Hutchinson and Luongo are quality players for this level but neither has ever stayed fit enough to play 30 games in a season for us.

 

So can we stop using this ‘biggest wage bill in the league’ line to hammer Moore with? We may be paying out some big wages but none of them were signed by Moore and (apart from Bannan) none of the players have really delivered as much as you’d want from someone on a big wage

[pat blondeau]

31 minutes ago, WorrallOwl17 said:

Why do people say it's a team made up of crocks and freebies as if it's a bad team or something? Think Wigan, Rotherham and MK would take pretty much all of our starting 11 over theirs, it's just been managed poorly for half of the season leaving us playing catch up. Even the teams going up in the top 2 would take most of our players i'm sure of it. 

You think Wigan, Rotherham and Mk would all take our starting 11 over theirs?

 

In the league 1 team of the season there’s 3 Rotherham players, 2 Wigan players, 2 MK players and 1 Wednesday player 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

Windass and Iorfa will be two of the highest earners in the squad (and in the league) but they’ve barely been fit so what use have they been to Moore?

 

Paterson will be on a big wage for league 1 but I think most of us would agree he isn’t worth that wage and he wasn’t signed by Moore.

 

Hutchinson and Luongo are quality players for this level but neither has ever stayed fit enough to play 30 games in a season for us.

 

So can we stop using this ‘biggest wage bill in the league’ line to hammer Moore with? We may be paying out some big wages but none of them were signed by Moore and (apart from Bannan) none of the players have really delivered as much as you’d want from someone on a big wage

its not just those though. It's pretty much the whole squad. A few other examples:

 

Byers was under contract at championship Swansea and we signed him presumably matching his existing contract otherwise he wouldn't have wanted to come.

Ditto Marvin Johnson from Middlesborough.

BFP is the highest paid player in our squad, unclear what % of his wages we're paying Burnley but it will likely be 5 figures a week.

Dele-Bashiru turned down a deal with Man City to come here because he wanted a chance of first team football but you'd assume our contract wasn't a million miles off what City offered him as an academy player, and that won't be cheap.

Dean is a championship player signed for £2m on championship wages and we will probably be paying the majority of them.

Hunt has spent a decade in the championship and comes here, he's probably on a high 4 figure wage.

Mendez-Laing the same as Hunt.

Berahino earned a fortune at Stoke and West Brom, he won't have come here to play for 2-3k a week either.

 

People are underestimating how big the wage bill is. While its true that some of the highest earners have been injured, its the whole squad on big money. The teams in the bottom half are literally paying 10% of what we do and we're dropping points against them, its embarrassing. Even the likes of Sunderland and Ipswich aren't paying the wages we are.

 

We have the highest wage bill in the league by some distance and should have been going for autos this season. Unclear why so many people are satisfied if we finish 7th and want to make excuses for the manager, but it is what it is.

[WorrallOwl17]

4 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

You think Wigan, Rotherham and Mk would all take our starting 11 over theirs?

 

In the league 1 team of the season there’s 3 Rotherham players, 2 Wigan players, 2 MK players and 1 Wednesday player 

Yeah, our players have under performed for large parts of the season. I don't mean they'd take our players based on this season alone, but in general i think BPF, Hutch, Johnson, Storey, Luongo, Gregory would all get games in the sides who have gone up. They've under performed and been mis managed this season, hence why we are where we are. We have a top 2 squad, more so than the 3 teams competing at the top

[@owlstalk]

6 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

 

 

People are underestimating how big the wage bill is. While its true that some of the highest earners have been injured, its the whole squad on big money. The teams in the bottom half are literally paying 10% of what we do and we're dropping points against them, its embarrassing.  

WAGE BILL

WAGE BILL

WAGE BILL

WE SHOULD BE CHAMPIONS BECAUSE OF OUR WAGE BILL

WE SHOULD NEVER DRAW OR LOSE A GAME BECAUSE OF OUR WAGE BILL

OUR WAGE BILL THO

LOOK AT OUR WAGE BILL

etc etc

[@owlstalk]

21 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

 

 

 

So can we stop using this ‘biggest wage bill in the league’ line to hammer Moore with? We may be paying out some big wages but none of them were signed by Moore and (apart from Bannan) none of the players have really delivered as much as you’d want from someone on a big wage

 

THIS

[pat blondeau]

9 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

its not just those though. It's pretty much the whole squad. A few other examples:

 

Byers was under contract at championship Swansea and we signed him presumably matching his existing contract otherwise he wouldn't have wanted to come.

Ditto Marvin Johnson from Middlesborough.

BFP is the highest paid player in our squad, unclear what % of his wages we're paying Burnley but it will likely be 5 figures a week.

Dele-Bashiru turned down a deal with Man City to come here because he wanted a chance of first team football but you'd assume our contract wasn't a million miles off what City offered him as an academy player, and that won't be cheap.

Dean is a championship player signed for £2m on championship wages and we will probably be paying the majority of them.

Hunt has spent a decade in the championship and comes here, he's probably on a high 4 figure wage.

Mendez-Laing the same as Hunt.

Berahino earned a fortune at Stoke and West Brom, he won't have come here to play for 2-3k a week either.

 

People are underestimating how big the wage bill is. While its true that some of the highest earners have been injured, its the whole squad on big money. The teams in the bottom half are literally paying 10% of what we do and we're dropping points against them, its embarrassing. Even the likes of Sunderland and Ipswich aren't paying the wages we are.

 

We have the highest wage bill in the league by some distance and should have been going for autos this season. Unclear why so many people are satisfied if we finish 7th and want to make excuses for the manager, but it is what it is.

Sunderland and Ipswich both spent fees on players this summer, something we were unable to do.

 

Ross Stewart cost about 500k at Sunderland and Ipswich paid fees for Burgess, Chaplin, Edmundson and Harper.

 

And if we aren’t paying out the wages of Sunderland, why did Danny Batth choose to go there ahead of Wednesday? 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

WAGE BILL

WAGE BILL

WAGE BILL

WE SHOULD BE CHAMPIONS BECAUSE OF OUR WAGE BILL

WE SHOULD NEVER DRAW OR LOSE A GAME BECAUSE OF OUR WAGE BILL

OUR WAGE BILL THO

LOOK AT OUR WAGE BILL

etc etc

Why do you think Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea are always near the top, and Man Utd fans go barmy about being 6th. Its because of the money they pay vs the rest of the league, it sets an expectation of results.

 

Its not about one game its about games across the season.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

Why do you think Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea are always near the top, and Man Utd fans go barmy about being 6th. Its because of the money they pay vs the rest of the league, it sets an expectation of results.

 

Its not about one game its about games across the season.

So basically we dont' need to play a season anymore

We just see what each club spent in the lower leagues in close season, and then just promote them?

If you're so sure wage bills lead to success and promotion surely you'd be selling your house and car and putting all the cash on whichever team has spent the most in each division?

[Tewkesbury]

18 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

You think Wigan, Rotherham and Mk would all take our starting 11 over theirs?

 

In the league 1 team of the season there’s 3 Rotherham players, 2 Wigan players, 2 MK players and 1 Wednesday player 

Maybe we'd have more if we consistently played players in the formation and positions they were recruited for and understand?

 

We only have two players who's played most of the season in their best position or not been dropped for extended periods.

BPF and Gregory.

 

How do you get in the league one team when you can't even get in your own team for more than 2-3 games at a time?

[pat blondeau]

1 minute ago, Tewkesbury said:

Maybe we'd have more if we consistently played players in the formation and positions they were recruited for and understand?

 

We only have two players who's played most of the season in their best position or not been dropped for extended periods.

BPF and Gregory.

 

How do you get in the league one team when you can't even get in your own team for more than 2-3 games at a time?

Go on then… who else do you think should be in the league 1 team of the season from Wednesday?

 

And can you tell me why it’s Moore’s fault they’re not in there?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

So basically we dont' need to play a season anymore

We just see what each club spent in the lower leagues in close season, and then just promote them?

If you're so sure wage bills lead to success and promotion surely you'd be selling your house and car and putting all the cash on whichever team has spent the most in each division?

The high correlation between wage bill and success since the Prem was invented (and across all divisions too) means that your first point is actually pretty accurate, we already know where teams are likely to roughly finish based on wage bill before the season starts.

 

When you underachieve relative to that its frustrating.