Its why some still have doubts about Moore

[NorthernOwl]

1 hour ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Losing 1-0 to Wycombe won’t see us miss out on the play offs.

It’s the stupid mistakes, last minute goals conceded, inability to defend set pieces and the ridiculous amounts of draws in the first half of the campaign.

 

It is fair to say we got carried away after MK Dons. But when you take a step back and look at us over the season, 7th is probably a fair reflection. We’ve been nearly men throughout.

 

On our day in my view the best side in the league with the strongest squad. But still mentally weak and susceptible to lapses in concentration. 

 

This is not a new problem either. It's been happening for years.

 

Many of the 'championship standard' players that Moore inherited were players that people wanted rid of last season because they were 'mentally weak' and 'not good enough'.

 

I guess these types of issue are not fixed overnight.

[Tewkesbury]

27 minutes ago, Asio otus said:

Really don't know what you are

 on about. Of course 352 improved results the evidence is overwhelming. 

Just a reminder the season is not over, its still in our hands.

Plenty of time to discuss  this season in the weeks to come.

 

We were talking about individual players being given an opportunity to perform in the roles they were recruited for. 

 

Results have nothing to do with it.

[Guest Jack the Hat]

2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

1) The season isn't over yet - we're still in with a chance of promotion

2) Appleton??

1. With a more experienced manager we would have a much better chance of the autos.

2. I don’t rate Appleton I was just using him as an example of someone I believe would do a better job than Moore in this division. The list is long. That said when we played Lincoln this season Appleton’s substitutions in the last 30 mins turned a loss into a draw (Hillsborough) and a draw into a win( away) gaining them an extra 3 points and losing us 3. I don’t think you can argue that Lincoln are a better team than us , but Appleton demonstrated better game management than the hapless Moore. Moore’s substitutions are usually baffling and often counter productive. Yeah I do believe with a manager with an average amount of tactical knowledge, game management and defensive / set piece training would already have secured us automatic promotion. 

[Tewkesbury]

42 minutes ago, paulrs said:

I think you're twisting things somewhat.

Our improved form started when we beat Sunderland in November. In the six months since then we've averaged 2 points per game which is automatic promotion form, and although we had a few players out injured at that time (Iorfa, Luongo, Windass to name three) it wasn't at crisis proportions. And even if it were, the fact we started improving then could just as easily be a case of correlation not causation.

And to suggest that now injuries are easing our results have dipped just doesn't add up. Before an unlucky defeat in a very tough away game on Saturday we'd taken 13 points from the previous 15. 

We've only conceded 2 late goals - Bolton and Accrington - since January, and the Accrington one was a complete fluky deflection.

I think people are spooked because we've dropped out of the play-offs and the form of Sunderland and Wycombe in particular is so strong. But like I said we were very unlucky on Saturday and prior to that were top of the form table so it's a bit early to be laying into the manager.... and I'm hardly Moore's biggest fan

Before the 8 games when Gregory was out, where DM couldn't play his preferred tactic, it's 1.54 ppg.

This form would have given us 71 points for the season.

 

Just the games since he's been back it's 1.8 ppg. Even if we had that form following the Oxford game to the end of the season, we only get 76 points.

 

The games when DM couldn't play his preferred tactics, we got 2.62 ppg.

 

DM's tactics aren't good enough to make the playoffs. To his credit, he changed when Gregory was out, and that's the only reason were still close, however he went straight back to it as soon as he could and points started dropping.

 

As for luck, we scored one open play goal in the last 4, and it was goal of the season. We could just as easily had 4 points from 15.

[@owlstalk]

Is it possible for those saying Moore is underachieving with the squad at his disposal to take a look at this photo of the squad that Francis had and not be hypocritical about it?

Let's see...

[@owlstalk]

9 minutes ago, Jack the Hat said:

1. With a more experienced manager we would have a much better chance of the autos.

2. I don’t rate Appleton I was just using him as an example of someone I believe would do a better job than Moore in this division. The list is long. That said when we played Lincoln this season Appleton’s substitutions in the last 30 mins turned a loss into a draw (Hillsborough) and a draw into a win( away) gaining them an extra 3 points and losing us 3. I don’t think you can argue that Lincoln are a better team than us , but Appleton demonstrated better game management than the hapless Moore. Moore’s substitutions are usually baffling and often counter productive. Yeah I do believe with a manager with an average amount of tactical knowledge, game management and defensive / set piece training would already have secured us automatic promotion. 

 

 

Fair enough 

I think Lincoln City are 18th in the league

[NorthernOwl]

9 minutes ago, Jack the Hat said:

1. With a more experienced manager we would have a much better chance of the autos.

 

Nothing more than speculation.

 

Look at Paul Cook at Ipswich. 

[Guest Jack the Hat]

10 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

Nothing more than speculation.

 

Look at Paul Cook at Ipswich. 

I'm sorry for speculating on here, I realise everyone else deals in fact. There's no place for speculation on football forums. I apologise.

[@owlstalk]

If you look at every single one of the managers people were calling for before we hired Darren Moore you'll see and understand why the ones fans want don't always work out

Nearly all of them have failed, been sacked or disappeared

[Guest Jack the Hat]

13 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Is it possible for those saying Moore is underachieving with the squad at his disposal to take a look at this photo of the squad that Francis had and not be hypocritical about it?

Let's see...

There is a quote i once heard - it's better to be a lucky manager than a good manager. In Wednesday's case I would label Francis, Carlos and Moore as lucky managers to have the squads they have in their respective times / divisions. In England terms I would say Sven, for sure, and possibly - time will tell - Southgate. But I get your point and you are spot on.

[Guest Jack the Hat]

36 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Is it possible for those saying Moore is underachieving with the squad at his disposal to take a look at this photo of the squad that Francis had and not be hypocritical about it?

Let's see...

Also, can i pretend that the guy next to Woods is Cantona -  he did actually sign for us and we won the league?

[NorthernOwl]

22 minutes ago, Jack the Hat said:

I'm sorry for speculating on here, I realise everyone else deals in fact. There's no place for speculation on football forums. I apologise.

 

You stated it as though it were a fact. Nothing wrong with speculation if presented as such.

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

8 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

Only if they veto the "crocks and freebies" rubbish and the "We're the only ones with injuries"

 

Look at our bench v Wycombe and tell me we don't have a good squad.

 

Not sure what your point is? Of course we have a good squad 

[Tewkesbury]

1 minute ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

Not sure what your point is? Of course we have a good squad 

It was in reply to a post saying that the "this squad should be doing better than seventh" posts should be vetoed as our squad isn't actually that good and we're doing well to ve where we are with our meagre playing staff.

[Big Jack]

2 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

We were talking about individual players being given an opportunity to perform in the roles they were recruited for. 

 

Results have nothing to do with it

Moore has done best  wth the squad in what has not been an easy season given the amount of injuries and change in personell.

We might get promotion we might not.

But results are king.

[@owlstalk]

1 hour ago, Jack the Hat said:

Also, can i pretend that the guy next to Woods is Cantona -  he did actually sign for us and we won the league?

 

Ahhhh if only! 
That would be the dream
Cantona and Owen Morrison up front - PREMIER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS

[Tewkesbury]

Just now, Asio otus said:

Moore has done best  wth the squad in what has not been an easy season given the amount of injuries and change in personell.

We might get promotion we might not.

But results are king.

I thought we were on about why we didn't have more players in the team of the year?

 

Anyways, his best results have come when he didn't have the players to play his favoured tactics, team picked itself and we had to play a more direct pressing game.

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

7 hours ago, parajack said:

So scroll past it............who makes you read such posts?? Wages are documented in our accounts(when published) though not individual player salarys,ditto all teams so the information is there,for those who care(i dont) to look for it....Critique of our squad is subjective,and amounts to opinion,but whats NOT subjective is we have Championship, & ex Championship players in our Squad/team + loan players from PL. We havnt either been languishing in L1 for Years & hindered by the L1 salary cap  & were able to offer Championship level wages to Players we retained.

Now charts are fine,but what they dont show is CONTEXT & RELEVENCE.......

Said 'charts' may have looked very different under different management,who may have had a different outlook on game management,team selection, etc etc....

eg: Player scores a hat trick? gets dropped next match....Player gets MoM and applauded by his team mates = dropped the next match...

Basically some people are posting a view YOU dont like,or agree with.....ITS A FORUM.....get over it 

 

Relax cherub Not good for your blood pressure. 
Critique of the squad is of course subjective and you are correct in terms of the origin of our squad. 
Where your argument falls down is the introduction of “CONTEXT” Actually pretty funny and ironic that you choose to emphasise in capitals

When stating we have the best or the biggest then the context has to be a comparison with something worse or smaller. That’s why it makes little sense to use these tired clichés without context. 
Anyway, there endeth the lesson. Glad to be able to help. 
For what it’s worth, I also find DMs selections baffling. (I think that’s the point you’re struggling to make lower down your post ???) In addition I think that other managers have outperformed DM tactically  and that DM rarely positively changes the outcome of games with his substitutions. I have posted these views many times on this “FORUM”

[thesouthowl]

Sure the start should/could of been better, but it's going to be about how we finish now.

 

Playoffs are 100% in our own hands, even a draw tomorrow isn't the end of the world-of course a decent win would help with GD as well as points and give some leeway for the final game v Portsmouth.

 

Saturday was a bit meh!! but we were still the much better side, despite the long ball tactics and like most games, we could have been a couple up fairly early in the game. I don't recall a game in recent times where we have really looked like losing, despite some below par performances-Gillingham and Acrington spring to mind.

 

Personally I think DM has done a fairly decent job, although I admit to being baffled by not so much the line ups per se, but the players being played out of position.

 

 

 

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

6 hours ago, 83owl said:

Bannan, Windass, Paterson, Hutchinson, Iorfa we’re all signed on championship contracts. They may or may not have relegation clauses. I think Luongo was signed for about £1m so will be on a decent wage, plus the playing squad is huge. You really think the likes of Rotherham, Oxford, Plymouth and Wigan are paying out anything close to us?

I have no clue. Do other squads have former Championship players? Pretty sure Rotherham and Wycombe were in the Championship last season? Are clubs like Sunderland and Ipswich gambling on promotion? Are we paying loan fees? Are parent clubs subsidising salaries? I don’t know and it seems neither does anyone else