Its why some still have doubts about Moore

[bigthinrob]

3 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

It would just be so 'Sheffield Wednesday' to keep Carlos when he was on a downward spiral for so long, and then fire Darren Moore as he's in the form of his life

This is the problem on here.  Ridiculously entrenched exaggerated ‘positions’.

 

I realise it’s a football forum where extreme opinions are it’s lifeblood, but there’s no room for sensible opinions & debate. On one hand Moore “is a clown” & on the other he’s in the “form of his life”. Obviously neither is remotely true.

 

Is it beyond possibility that the ‘pro Moore’ fraternity can admit he has made mistakes in certain areas which have been well documented including chopping & changing & some bizarre line ups & substitutions, 

 

And is it beyond possibility that that ‘anti Moore’ fraternity can have and express their doubts in his ability without resorting to over the top abuse and exaggerations of his shortcomings.

 

Moore has done probably what should have been expected as a bare minimum with the squad, which does not lead to the conclusion “he’s in the form of his life”.

 

By the same token, the fact that we are clinging onto a playoff spot by the skin of our teeth, when some feel auto’s should have been attained, does not lead to the conclusion he’s a ‘clown’.

 

More likely, somewhere in between.

 

Maybe enough of the ‘philosophical’ arguments for the time being regarding DMs management credentials. No doubt the argument will raise its head again, but maybe now time to all get our game faces on ready for the two upcoming games. 
 

Sellout on Saturday, and we all need to be singing from the same, single unified hymn sheet. Any other debates at this juncture are a distraction and a sideshow and need to be for another day.

 

 

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

 

Moore has done probably what should have been expected as a bare minimum with the squad 

Only if your expectation/demands of a freshly relegated club with financial woes, embargoes and other off pitch crisis are that a manager should get promoted immediately straight back with a brand new set of players

 

 

[@owlstalk]

4 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

 

 

Maybe enough of the ‘philosophical’ arguments for the time being regarding DMs management credentials. No doubt the argument will raise its head again, but maybe now time to all get our game faces on ready for the two upcoming games. 
 

Sellout on Saturday, and we all need to be singing from the same, single unified hymn sheet. Any other debates at this juncture are a distraction and a sideshow and need to be for another day.

 

 

Totally agree with this

 

[bigthinrob]

2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Only if your expectation/demands of a freshly relegated club with financial woes, embargoes and other off pitch crisis are that a manager should get promoted immediately straight back with a brand new set of players

 

 

I used it as an example of the expectations of one side of the argument.

 

I do however, feel that most people would have expected us to be in or around the playoffs.

 

Certainly no more contentious than DM “ Being in the form of his life”.

 

Anyway, last word from me on the subject. 
 

For the rest of the week, no pro or anti Moore, just unadulterated, unconditional support for the lads.

[megsonstheman]

8 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Only if your expectation/demands of a freshly relegated club with financial woes, embargoes and other off pitch crisis are that a manager should get promoted immediately straight back with a brand new set of players

 

 

Wigan?

[@owlstalk]

3 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

I used it as an example of the expectations of one side of the argument.

 

I do however, feel that most people would have expected us to be in or around the playoffs.

 

Certainly no more contentious than DM “ Being in the form of his life”.

 

Anyway, last word from me on the subject. 
 

For the rest of the week, no pro or anti Moore, just unadulterated, unconditional support for the lads.

 

 

 

YES PLEASE

Well said

 

The last few weeks have been just unbearable with people looking to snipe, cry and turn any result (even wins) into something to batter Darren Moore with

A week of pure support is exactly what I'd love to see

Will it happen?

Sadly not - there will be some out there who can't help but have a pop at Moore or even Bannan for that matter

Bonkers

In a season where we (hopefully) get promoted some fans have spent the whole season crying and moaning instead of enjoying it

Does my head in

Anyway - hope you're well and let's go wtih your plan this week as this week is the week to do it like you say

[bobness]

Why do we still feel we need to keep apologising for Moore? Hasn't our squad proven itself? Don't we have arguably the best midfielder in the league on our books? People talk about Moore's rebuild as if we have a team full of nobodies pulling up trees every match.

 

Yes, Moore did a bloody good job with recruitment, but that doesn't mean he's doing a great job as a manager. On the basis of some excellent performances this season, I think Moore should've done better with this squad.

 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, bobness said:

Why do we still feel we need to keep apologising for Moore? Hasn't our squad proven itself? Don't we have arguably the best midfielder in the league on our books? People talk about Moore's rebuild as if we have a team full of nobodies pulling up trees every match.

 

Yes, Moore did a bloody good job with recruitment, but that doesn't mean he's doing a great job as a manager. On the basis of some excellent performances this season, I think Moore should've done better with this squad.

 

 

I think the time to judge whether or not he's done the job is after the job is completed (either way)

[parajack]

11 minutes ago, bobness said:

Why do we still feel we need to keep apologising for Moore? Hasn't our squad proven itself? Don't we have arguably the best midfielder in the league on our books? People talk about Moore's rebuild as if we have a team full of nobodies pulling up trees every match.

 

Yes, Moore did a bloody good job with recruitment, but that doesn't mean he's doing a great job as a manager. On the basis of some excellent performances this season, I think Moore should've done better with this squad.

 

Ssschhhhhhh  !!!  LOL  someone will hear and there will be all hell to play.....dont you know 'tired cliches' being repeated is asking for trouble? what if Lauriesleftpeg see;s this post? 

Quick delete it FFS!!....

[Dutch McLovin]

2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

I'd absolutely love to hear what you mean by this, and a few examples?

Read the rest of his post he explains it there 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

6 hours ago, bobness said:

Why do we still feel we need to keep apologising for Moore? Hasn't our squad proven itself? Don't we have arguably the best midfielder in the league on our books? People talk about Moore's rebuild as if we have a team full of nobodies pulling up trees every match.

 

Yes, Moore did a bloody good job with recruitment, but that doesn't mean he's doing a great job as a manager. On the basis of some excellent performances this season, I think Moore should've done better with this squad.

 

For a large part of the season, we had only one fit senior centre back available, which understandably affected our performances and results. 

 

Since we signed Storey and Dean, giving us more than one fit centre back most weeks, we're top of the form table...

 

 

He's doing pretty well with the squad we now have.

[SDS Owl]

7 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

I think the time to judge whether or not he's done the job is after the job is completed (either way)

This 100%. The problem is that as a fan base we can’t even seem to agree what the job is or what good (success) looks like. 

[Mr Farrell]

Time for Moore to step up.

 

No Moore thinking he's Pep.

 

No Moore fiddling with the best starting 11.

 

No Moore excuses.

 

 

[@owlstalk]

1 hour ago, SDS Owl said:

This 100%. The problem is that as a fan base we can’t even seem to agree what the job is or what good (success) looks like. 

 

True!

 

 

[Tewkesbury]

5 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

For a large part of the season, we had only one fit senior centre back available, which understandably affected our performances and results. 

 

Since we signed Storey and Dean, giving us more than one fit centre back most weeks, we're top of the form table...

 

 

He's doing pretty well with the squad we now have.

We can all cherry pick firm tables.

Here's one for the games since Gregory came back and DM could play neshball again.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 minute ago, Tewkesbury said:

We can all cherry pick firm tables.

Here's one for the games since Gregory came back and DM could play neshball again.

 

 

The point I was trying to make is that we had one, sometimes zero, fit senior centre backs for a large part of the season, which affected us massively - as it would any team.

 

That's why I posted the form table since Storey's debut, as having him, Dean, and other returning centre backs has made the world of difference to our form.

 

I honestly don't understand the point you're trying to make re: Gregory, though?

 

It looks like you're trying to draw a link between his return to fitness and a slight drop in form?

 

But then you include two games which we started with Berahino and Paterson, with Gregory only making an appearance from the bench.

 

In the games that Gregory's started since returning from injury, we've averaged 2.13 points per game, which seems pretty decent to me. 

 

Unless you think we should be playing someone else up top for some reason?

[Tewkesbury]

5 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

 

The point I was trying to make is that we had one, sometimes zero, fit senior centre backs for a large part of the season, which affected us massively - as it would any team.

 

That's why I posted the form table since Storey's debut, as having him, Dean, and other returning centre backs has made the world of difference to our form.

 

I honestly don't understand the point you're trying to make re: Gregory, though?

 

It looks like you're trying to draw a link between his return to fitness and a slight drop in form?

 

But then you include two games which we started with Berahino and Paterson, with Gregory only making an appearance from the bench.

 

In the games that Gregory's started since returning from injury, we've averaged 2.13 points per game, which seems pretty decent to me. 

 

Unless you think we should be playing someone else up top for some reason?

It's not Gregory himself.

It's the tactics we use when Geegory plays, even as a sub.

 

DM has one strike partnership as his aim, Gregory and Windass. The rest are just filler till he can get them together, so if one plays, even if it's for 20 minutes, we play tactics that suit that player all game.

 

When he plays, we play tippy tappy slow build up, aiming to get the ball to his feet in the D, then play off him. Even if he doesn't start, we play it all game. There is no other option. He's tried to mitigate it somewhat by using NML as Windass-lite but it's not working. Kamberi or Sow help with their movement, but he doesn't seem to like playing them unless there's no other option.

 

That's DM's preferred tactic. But without Gregory it doesn't work, so we revert to a much more direct game with high press, longer balls and grind out wins through effort. We play like a league one team. We stretch the play and don't give teams time to set up attacks. The biggest difference is defensively as we defend from the front, every man chasing everything down.

 

When he's in we play like a Serie A team, tapping it about, little flicks, it looks great, till it doesn't. Some teams it destroys, others just laugh and bang it over the top of you. We don't press outside the first 10-15 minutes of each half, so end up on the back foot. We don't have an outlet, so we're under sustained pressure more if we can't pass our way out of trouble.

 

We trade workrate for skill, but that only takes you so far when players can pretty much foul at will. No VAR down here.

 

I've been saying this most of the season, it usually gets a few laughing emojis and a sid james or two, but nobody's ever told me why it's wrong.

 

I hope that we do go up, I hope I'm wrong, but it's gone pretty much according to script so far.

[Quickly Kevin]

12 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

I think the time to judge whether or not he's done the job is after the job is completed (either way)

 

It was depressing to see the same people start threads after a loss who never post after a win.

 

 

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Quickly Kevin said:

 

It was depressing to see the same people start threads after a loss who never post after a win.

 

 

 

They just lurk waiting for any kind of slip up then attack

Could be a starting lineup 
Could be a draw

Could be a win where we don't score enough goals
Could be that we're not already promoted

ANYTHING to have a go at Darren Moore at the moment

Sickening to think he could get this club promoted and these people would benefit from that but not give him any credit and nothing but a hard time

Anyway - FOOOOOK the haters - I'm going to enjoy this week
Its exciting
My club have a chance of playoffs
We have two cracking games coming up
Saturday will be a sell out

Let's have fun ffs!

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 minute ago, Tewkesbury said:

It's not Gregory himself.

It's the tactics we use when Geegory plays, even as a sub.

 

DM has one strike partnership as his aim, Gregory and Windass. The rest are just filler till he can get them together, so if one plays, even if it's for 20 minutes, we play tactics that suit that player all game.

 

When he plays, we play tippy tappy slow build up, aiming to get the ball to his feet in the D, then play off him. Even if he doesn't start, we play it all game. There is no other option. He's tried to mitigate it somewhat by using NML as Windass-lite but it's not working. Kamberi or Sow help with their movement, but he doesn't seem to like playing them unless there's no other option.

 

That's DM's preferred tactic. But without Gregory it doesn't work, so we revert to a much more direct game with high press, longer balls and grind out wins through effort. We play like a league one team. We stretch the play and don't give teams time to set up attacks. The biggest difference is defensively as we defend from the front, every man chasing everything down.

 

When he's in we play like a Serie A team, tapping it about, little flicks, it looks great, till it doesn't. Some teams it destroys, others just laugh and bang it over the top of you. We don't press outside the first 10-15 minutes of each half, so end up on the back foot. We don't have an outlet, so we're under sustained pressure more if we can't pass our way out of trouble.

 

We trade workrate for skill, but that only takes you so far when players can pretty much foul at will. No VAR down here.

 

I've been saying this most of the season, it usually gets a few laughing emojis and a sid james or two, but nobody's ever told me why it's wrong.

 

I hope that we do go up, I hope I'm wrong, but it's gone pretty much according to script so far.

 

It's quite difficult to know where to start in terms of telling you why it's wrong, to be honest.

 

It just doesn't tally with what I'm seeing at all.

 

We look a far more coherent and consistent attacking threat with Gregory in the team than we do without him, as far as I can see.

 

Quite how having Gregory on the bench can somehow be responsible for how we play in the 70 or so minutes he's not even on the pitch is a new one on me - I'll just have to look out for it from here on in, I suppose.