Why are barnsley better than us?

[Bluewings]

1 hour ago, KivoOwl said:

Always had a soft spot for Barnsley.

 

A proper town, made up of little mining communities similar to Kiveton. Proper Yorkshire folk.

 

Most Barnsley fans I've met have been sound as a pound (a few knuckle draggers like every club - being chased back to the station by some scrotes after an U23 game because I had a Wednesday hat on was equally frightening/hilarious)

 

They are a few hundred yards ahead of us on the pitch, but a mile in front off it. I know two people who work there - both left Wednesday within weeks of Chansiri arriving. One was in charge of selling executive boxes. Both big Wednesday fans. Both gutted about where we are, but more than happy with their lot at Barnsley.

 

I suppose a lot comes down to the luck of the draw. Most clubs sell out to foreign owners at our level now. Ours is an absolute clown who couldn't run a toffee shop and doesn't care about the fans, whereas Barnsley's seem to have their poo together and realise the importance of getting the fan base on board. In working class towns that is absolutely crucial - we're from one of the biggest working class settlements in the UK and our fans are shafted from every angle. Their owner is a multi-billionaire but refrains from hurling vast amounts at it as he knows it could affect the long-term survival of the club. They need to be sustainable.

 

Like Brentford, they have an actual strategy when it comes to player recruitment. It doesn't consist of 'We'll sign this player for X millions and pray to God it works'. They buy low, sell high, and invest in their infrastructure with the profit.

Basically the post sums everything up.

You know if Barnsley keep going in this direction with the way they are building they are only going to get better and better.

They might be only a few points better but everything else is embarrassingly streets ahead.

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

1 hour ago, KivoOwl said:

Always had a soft spot for Barnsley.

 

A proper town, made up of little mining communities similar to Kiveton. Proper Yorkshire folk.

 

Most Barnsley fans I've met have been sound as a pound (a few knuckle draggers like every club - being chased back to the station by some scrotes after an U23 game because I had a Wednesday hat on was equally frightening/hilarious)

 

They are a few hundred yards ahead of us on the pitch, but a mile in front off it. I know two people who work there - both left Wednesday within weeks of Chansiri arriving. One was in charge of selling executive boxes. Both big Wednesday fans. Both gutted about where we are, but more than happy with their lot at Barnsley.

 

I suppose a lot comes down to the luck of the draw. Most clubs sell out to foreign owners at our level now. Ours is an absolute clown who couldn't run a toffee shop and doesn't care about the fans, whereas Barnsley's seem to have their poo together and realise the importance of getting the fan base on board. In working class towns that is absolutely crucial - we're from one of the biggest working class settlements in the UK and our fans are shafted from every angle. Their owner is a multi-billionaire but refrains from hurling vast amounts at it as he knows it could affect the long-term survival of the club. They need to be sustainable.

 

Like Brentford, they have an actual strategy when it comes to player recruitment. It doesn't consist of 'We'll sign this player for X millions and pray to God it works'. They buy low, sell high, and invest in their infrastructure with the profit.

 

yes, the plan has worked well for decades. They have had their good years and their bad years. As have we yet,  we have achieved a little more than the One solitary Cup win 109 years ago. Where we are today is just a photograph in time.  

[KivoOwl]

11 minutes ago, Bluewings said:

Basically the post sums everything up.

You know if Barnsley keep going in this direction with the way they are building they are only going to get better and better.

They might be only a few points better but everything else is embarrassingly streets ahead.

I'd be surprised if they had a tilt at the Premier League in the near future - but they've got a lot better chance than us.

 

And the worrying thing is - for us, the Premier League is hailed as some sort of Valhalla that we need to reach at all costs. If we'd won the playoff final Chansiri would be touted as a club legend - even though we'd have likely come straight back down and be back in the same position we're in now. 

 

For Barnsley, it would be a nice surprise, but it's not the be all and end all. What's most important is that they continue to have a football club they call their own, that they can keep supporting, at whatever level.

[Guest]

I think like a few have said on here, I don't think they are better than us just seem to have a plan 

 

I love the idea of moneyball, I think the best way to run a club is to have a philosophy of playing attacking football, develop homegrown players, buy young hungry players that can be coached and developed and sold at a profit 

 

But the whole idea is to buy or develop cheap players and sell for a big profit and this is where it will fall down at SWFC, 80% of fans will not accept or understand it 

 

If I won £100 million on the euro and bought the club ( I know that may not be enough its just an example) and I turned round in the press conference and said it may take a few years but I'm going to turn SWFC into a club with an attacking football philosophy, were going to buy young hungry players, were going to develop our own  and then were going to sell for maximum profit and do it all again.

I'd be lorded for it until the very first player we sign develop and sell comes along and then you will get the usual fans bemoaning that we are a selling club or that we've got no ambition ( things like first good player we've had in ages and we sell him)  they wouldn't see the bigger picture, they wouldn't accept that's our place and standing in football today, you'd still get them going on about what a massive club we are and massive clubs don't sell they're best players 

 

The system works at Brentford and will work at Barnsley because the whole club fans included accept who they are and where they are, at our club its a little more complicated because its not only a percentage of fans that need to grasp it, its the owner and his advisors to 

[FreshOwl]

Ok so Barnsley are better because they’re better at selling players on than us? 
 

So if DC had sold FF back in 2017 this thread shouldn’t exist then  

Edited February 15, 2021 by FreshOwl

[adelphi1867]

3 hours ago, Daizan10 said:

But these cycles are effected and occur because of the way clubs are run. Its not just the fates setting a schedule out for clubs to follow. So we can effect the cycle and make ourselves top of it. Or we can sit back and watch this clown drag us further and further down. 

Seeing as Chansiri OWNS the club, what can we do?.

[pachyderm]

The real question, to me is, how daft are Brentford that they lost to those guys? 

 

And, no we aren't better than Barnsley. 

[pachyderm]

And how did the Bees let this guy score?

 

[Ante's Bubbly]

17 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Definitely

Loads of games left - loads of time for it all to switch around

 

Yes, but we usually get sucked in when spending most of the season ticking over in mid table. We were actually placed there by the EFL at the start of the season and the glue has only just melted (thanks to Mr Thompson and his team of players. coaches and backroom staff).

 

I commented on an earlier post, this weekend, about how good Barnsley looked against Chelsea in their cup game. I have been impressed by them and the way they have performed for most of the season.

 

I believe that the differences between our two teams are are varied, with some having little effect on the football being played, whereas there are several policies and attitudes that Barnsley have, such as having a plan, a positive relationship between the owners, the head coach and the fans (something the Barnsley fans were surprised with too!) where everybody pulls together in the same direction, attracting young players, re-signing players that they want to keep and playing a high tempo brand of football where the whole team move up and down the pitch together as a unit, which stifles the amount of space available when they lose possession and generally with enough pace in the defence to cover teams that attempt to hit them on the break. To be fair this is similar in style to that which Monk wanted to move towards, although the player buying part of the club were not on the same hymn sheet, preferring to buy the polar opposite of what Monk wanted, players wise. Barnsley also pay wages to a much lower budget than Sheffield Wednesday, living closer to their means, while rewarding players depending on their ability and what they do for the club rather than what they have done before or the number of years that they have spent on the planet.

 

Statistics show that the Barnsley business model and football strategy has been slightly more effective pointwise, moneywise and sustainability wise, with them also having more players that could be sold in the future, judging by the high concentration of players that are younger than 25 years old.

• League positions: Barnsley, 39 points 12th, Sheffield Wednesday, 28 points, 22nd (with our 6 point deduction)
• (According to salarysport.com) Wage bills: Barnsley £7,937,020 SWFC £19,259,500.
• Average age of top 20 players (by wages): Barnsley 23yrs, SWFC 27yrs & 6 months.
• Barnsley have just one 30yr old player, none older and 15 players in their top 20 earners under 25yrs of age.
• SWFC have 4 players 30 or older with only one of the top 20 earners under 25yrs - loan player Izzy Brown.
• The lowest earner in Barnsley's top 20 earns £171,600 
• The lowest earner in SWFC's top 20 earns £327,600
• Barnsley have 19 players under 25 earning more than £2k per week
• In our 60 man squad, SWFC only have 3 players under 25 earning more than £2k per week, none of them in our top 20 earners and none of them regular players.
• 3 of Barnsley top 8 earners are under 25 and earn more than £5k per week
• 2 of SWFCs top 22 earners Number (21 and 22) are under 25 and earn more than £5k per week 
• Excluding their top earner, there is only £5k between the second highest Barnsley earner and the 20th
• Excluding our top earner, there is £24k between our second highest earner and our 20th

Those statistics and figures show quite clearly what some of us have been harping on about for years. We cannot attract, or keep good young players, because we do not pay good young players the amount of money that they are worth. We would rather pay older players way more than they are worth than pay younger players the kind of wages that they deserve. It is like Jack Charlton's wage assessment is still being applied to players under 25 and Chansiri's, money is no object, approach is being used for players that are 25 and over!

[Ante's Bubbly]

3 hours ago, PARKOWL said:

I think like a few have said on here, I don't think they are better than us just seem to have a plan 

 

I love the idea of moneyball, I think the best way to run a club is to have a philosophy of playing attacking football, develop homegrown players, buy young hungry players that can be coached and developed and sold at a profit 

 

But the whole idea is to buy or develop cheap players and sell for a big profit and this is where it will fall down at SWFC, 80% of fans will not accept or understand it 

 

If I won £100 million on the euro and bought the club ( I know that may not be enough its just an example) and I turned round in the press conference and said it may take a few years but I'm going to turn SWFC into a club with an attacking football philosophy, were going to buy young hungry players, were going to develop our own  and then were going to sell for maximum profit and do it all again.

I'd be lorded for it until the very first player we sign develop and sell comes along and then you will get the usual fans bemoaning that we are a selling club or that we've got no ambition ( things like first good player we've had in ages and we sell him)  they wouldn't see the bigger picture, they wouldn't accept that's our place and standing in football today, you'd still get them going on about what a massive club we are and massive clubs don't sell they're best players 

 

The system works at Brentford and will work at Barnsley because the whole club fans included accept who they are and where they are, at our club its a little more complicated because its not only a percentage of fans that need to grasp it, its the owner and his advisors to 

 

I am sorry to sound so totally opposed to what you are saying, but quite honestly mate it really is totally ridiculous to suggest that, because our club has an older name(by just 20 years), or that our ground is in a bigger city, that our fans will not accept success, but will accept being run by somebody with no business sense of business acumen, rather than an ownership that has both!

 

Let's face it, without any shareholding in our club whatsoever, we have to accept whatever lunatic ideas our sole owner has which has more to do with lucky colours, lucky numbers and which way the wind blows than anything else!

 

The day our club cuts out the rot and starts to grow properly as a football club, the way it had to back in the beginning, building success rather than trying to gamble everything on the roll of an old rusty dice, then we might actually start to fit those big boots that we look ridiculous in now! What idiotic club, or business pays twice as much in wages as they have coming into the club and pay it for vastly inferior players/products that have little to no sell on value? We have not sold any of our exiting superstar mega wage earners yet they were so brilliant while they were her that we managed to crawl into the playoffs. Whoopee!

 

When we start doing things properly I am guessing that there will be more fans supporting the club 100% than there are right now, with so many fans feeling totally cut off from it all. If we had cut our cloth accordingly in 2020 and come up with a business plan like Barnsley's do you think we would still be wallowing in debt 21 years later, closer to going down yet again, than going up?

 

No, I don't and I know which way I would prefer our club to go and it is not the way where we pretend to be the big club, paying premiership wages to mediocre players.

[DlNGLE]

In the summer I told you all we’d finish at least 20 points above Wensdeh, now I reckon it’ll be 25 at least. In the last two seasons we’ve kicked on in the second half of the season, and gone on promotion winning form, despite recent results, all signs show we’re about to do the same again, in my opinion the next 7 games will push us well clear of you lot. 

 

Next season we could be in for a worse season than we had last year, or what you’re having this season, unless the way we retain and sell players changes drastically. 

[Beighton Owl 87]

42 minutes ago, DlNGLE said:

In the summer I told you all we’d finish at least 20 points above Wensdeh, now I reckon it’ll be 25 at least. In the last two seasons we’ve kicked on in the second half of the season, and gone on promotion winning form, despite recent results, all signs show we’re about to do the same again, in my opinion the next 7 games will push us well clear of you lot. 

 

Next season we could be in for a worse season than we had last year, or what you’re having this season, unless the way we retain and sell players changes drastically. 

Your 11 points clear of us. We're in the best form we've been in all season and you reckon you will gain an extra 14 points then us over the remainder of this season?

 

Deluded 

[Quist]

Barnsley now have a structure they are working to. Have always had an ability to spot talent. They now look to have a decent manager / coach. They are recruiting young high energy players 

 

They recently had a bit of a dodgy spell but came out of it with good win over Brentford. 

 

Our recruitment when compared to Barnsley is terrible Their recruitment has been world wide and concentrated on emerging talent. 

 

With link to Pickering and now Jephcote I hope we are now looking in promising talent zone. However until we start actually signing these type of players we have to live in hope.

[The Night-Owl]

The thing is why time and again over the past couple of a decades, why some mediocre clubs' fanbases get to big for their shoes and why we have little come back other than the year we were formed and our history. It is down to how short sighted and mediocre Wednesday has been run as a club for too many years.

 

Plenty of similar sized clubs and smaller clubs or less successful clubs historically, have passed us by or have a much brighter future than us, merely because they look to bring players through, sell them on and reinvesting in lower league talent with resale value. We'll continue stagnating or going further downwards and backwards, unless we as a club start focusing on the long term, the future and doing things more sensibly. Sadly, all we've got to shout about or feel proud about is Wednesday's long history and distant success in the past.

 

The best it's ever been in my lifetime was the 90s, it'll probably never get as good as that ever again. I've lost count of the numerous so called smaller clubs or similarly sized clubs or historically less successful clubs, that have got promoted to the top flight or spent more than one season there, since the last time we were there. I don't see Barnsley getting there anytime soon but the way they're run as a club, they probably have a better chance than us in the near future, who'd have thought the likes of Burnley; Bournemouth, Reading, Swansea and Cardiff, etc and many others, would get to the top flight before we ever got back? I think, the last time we were there, many of those teams mentioned, were struggling just to stay in the Football League?

 

It sadly says more about the shambolic way this club as been run for far too many years, that so many average or mediocre clubs have got to the top flight, some of them on more than one occasion before we've ever got back there. 

[Daizan10]

21 hours ago, adelphi1867 said:

Seeing as Chansiri OWNS the club, what can we do?.

Not much, admittedly. Whatever difference it makes, let him know via social media. According to him it makes a huge difference, so we shall see. I don't necessarily want to see him gone, just accept we need a director of football to make sure we don't lurch about between philosophies or his own whims and have a consistent plan. I'd also like to see him invest in the infrastructure - indicating a long term plan, rather than this short term blowing his wad and then losing interest. 

[Guest The Claw]

tell you what, lets knock wednesday again, ffs

[Hamakua Pueo]

On recent form, edging towards the playoffs.

[thommowl]

They play a very high press game where all strikers and midfielders give defenders no time to relax, interesting that they take off all these 4/5 (attacking players) that have ran themselves into the ground around the hour mark. Definitely taking advantage of the 5 sub rule. 

[PortlandOwl]

Moneyball

[Guest]

Barnsley will finish above us this season, even taking our points deduction off. It shouldn't really be that much of a surprise. They were 7 points worse than us last season but have appointed a manager who plays a decent style of football and is effective with what they have. 

We started this season trying to attract players to a club with a 12 point deduction under a manager who had won 17 points in the last half-season. 

 

They are on a more stable footing than us but it doesn't tend to last long with them. Every now and again they have a decent season and finish above us but it is rarely sustained. They finished 14th in 2017, decent by their recent standards - they are only 3 points ahead of 14th now - the next season they were relegated.