brian joicey Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 On 15/02/2021 at 16:01, Ante's Bubbly said: Those statistics and figures show quite clearly what some of us have been harping on about for years. We cannot attract, or keep good young players, because we do not pay good young players the amount of money that they are worth. We would rather pay older players way more than they are worth than pay younger players the kind of wages that they deserve. It is like Jack Charlton's wage assessment is still being applied to players under 25 and Chansiri's, money is no object, approach is being used for players that are 25 and over! just a thought...... older players = more established ,meaning agents earn more money from them swfc (seemingly) are run by agents this seems to be the equation that dictates our recruitment (and retention) policy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 On 15/02/2021 at 20:53, DlNGLE said: In the summer I told you all we’d finish at least 20 points above Wensdeh, now I reckon it’ll be 25 at least. In the last two seasons we’ve kicked on in the second half of the season, and gone on promotion winning form, despite recent results, all signs show we’re about to do the same again, in my opinion the next 7 games will push us well clear of you lot. Next season we could be in for a worse season than we had last year, or what you’re having this season, unless the way we retain and sell players changes drastically. You are massive too. A massive set o’ tramps!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 On 15/02/2021 at 11:15, KivoOwl said: Always had a soft spot for Barnsley. A proper town, made up of little mining communities similar to Kiveton. Proper Yorkshire folk. Most Barnsley fans I've met have been sound as a pound (a few knuckle draggers like every club - being chased back to the station by some scrotes after an U23 game because I had a Wednesday hat on was equally frightening/hilarious) They are a few hundred yards ahead of us on the pitch, but a mile in front off it. I know two people who work there - both left Wednesday within weeks of Chansiri arriving. One was in charge of selling executive boxes. Both big Wednesday fans. Both gutted about where we are, but more than happy with their lot at Barnsley. I suppose a lot comes down to the luck of the draw. Most clubs sell out to foreign owners at our level now. Ours is an absolute clown who couldn't run a toffee shop and doesn't care about the fans, whereas Barnsley's seem to have their poo together and realise the importance of getting the fan base on board. In working class towns that is absolutely crucial - we're from one of the biggest working class settlements in the UK and our fans are shafted from every angle. Their owner is a multi-billionaire but refrains from hurling vast amounts at it as he knows it could affect the long-term survival of the club. They need to be sustainable. Like Brentford, they have an actual strategy when it comes to player recruitment. It doesn't consist of 'We'll sign this player for X millions and pray to God it works'. They buy low, sell high, and invest in their infrastructure with the profit. Give it a rest FFS! Christ Almighty! Get thisen t’Oakwell..... Jeeeesus!! Honestly..... Pathetic!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ante's Bubbly Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 3 hours ago, brian joicey said: just a thought...... older players = more established ,meaning agents earn more money from them swfc (seemingly) are run by agents this seems to be the equation that dictates our recruitment (and retention) policy Definitely. I think, that too large a percentage of the money spent up to now by DC, has ended up disappearing, or should I say, leeched away (?), in agent and agent related payments. The figures just do not seem to add up otherwise. I would go as far to say that if somebody has not been making a lot of money out of all the money changing hands, where else has it gone, because we have only got around £20m of talent at the club signed by DC. The accounts show how much the pitch, scoreboard etc cost, so where did the rest of the purported £350m go? I am very pleased that Bannan has signed up again today, though. What a great servant he has been in these interesting times! He has played more minutes than anybody else so far this season and seems to put in more effort than some players much younger than him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modboy Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 39 minutes ago, sonofbert2 said: Give it a rest FFS! Christ Almighty! Get thisen t’Oakwell..... Jeeeesus!! Honestly..... Pathetic!! Wait til they are homeless next season. Rumours of them moving to Rotherham ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ante's Bubbly Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 On 15/02/2021 at 20:37, Quist said: Barnsley now have a structure they are working to. Have always had an ability to spot talent. They now look to have a decent manager / coach. They are recruiting young high energy players They recently had a bit of a dodgy spell but came out of it with good win over Brentford. Our recruitment when compared to Barnsley is terrible Their recruitment has been world wide and concentrated on emerging talent. With link to Pickering and now Jephcote I hope we are now looking in promising talent zone. However until we start actually signing these type of players we have to live in hope. I agree, but to be honest players like Pickering and Jephcote are not really under the radar, emerging talent. They were a season or two ago, but now they have been attracting a large number of clubs that are prepared to court them and pay these young players a decent wage and maybe even offer them enough incentives to get even better. We only seem to jump in on players that already have a queue of clubs already wanting them and then we are at the back of the queue and can only hope to succeed by winning the wage auction, which can also be expensive if the players do not work out. Plus if we cannot offer good enough terms to players like George Hirst and Liam Shaw, who were both self confessed Wednesdayites then what hope do we have with players that just see our club in the line with all the others after their signatures? If our policy regarding signing, or keeping promising young players does not change very soon then we will continue this downward spiral, just as we did when we slipped down from the premiership, but as in recent relegations it will be league 1 again for us I am afraid. How these stupid chairmen cannot learn from the mistakes of previous chairmen/owners I really do not understand. We only managed to get promoted back to the championship last time because Megson and his good contacts managed to dig up some really good quality young players like Semedo, Lines, Antonio and Marshall, Irvine had signed Madine and Reda Johnson, Beavers was already at the club and more experienced players like O'Grady, Prutton and Rob Jones were added by Megson to make the push for promotion. He also brought in Michael Morrison and wanted Adam le Fondre, who was available at a snip, but due to lack of funds, Morrison was let go and we offered Rotherham just under their valuation rather than pay what they wanted, which I believe cost us the title, but luckily we still got over the line in second place. Somehow, unless things were to change very quickly, I cannot see how the present player purchasing department would manage to source enough quality players for us to do it again, although being forced to recruit on an even smaller budget could work out in our long term favour if it meant us bringing in more young players, like you said in your post about Barnsley. We would have to work within a tighter structure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamakua Pueo Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 5 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said: Barnsley will finish above us this season, even taking our points deduction off. It shouldn't really be that much of a surprise. They were 7 points worse than us last season but have appointed a manager who plays a decent style of football and is effective with what they have. We started this season trying to attract players to a club with a 12 point deduction under a manager who had won 17 points in the last half-season. They are on a more stable footing than us but it doesn't tend to last long with them. Every now and again they have a decent season and finish above us but it is rarely sustained. They finished 14th in 2017, decent by their recent standards - they are only 3 points ahead of 14th now - the next season they were relegated. But they are under new wealthy foreign ownership since 2017.. Ownership which, despite its wealth, has chosen to run the club frugally, so far. I emphasize the so far. No one really knows how they will act in the future. One possibility is that, having developed a cadre of young players and mid-table Championship status, they might increase their investment. Not saying I know this will happen, but it is something to consider. What Barnsley formerly did under skint local ownership is no evidence about what the club will do now. By all evidence, they are a club that is moving in an opposite direction from the Owls, as painful as that is to contemplate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlsfieldowl Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 They have a leadership/management team that know something about running a football club. We don’t. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Hamakua Pueo said: But they are under new wealthy foreign ownership since 2017.. Ownership which, despite its wealth, has chosen to run the club frugally, so far. I emphasize the so far. No one really knows how they will act in the future. One possibility is that, having developed a cadre of young players and mid-table Championship status, they might increase their investment. Not saying I know this will happen, but it is something to consider. What Barnsley formerly did under skint local ownership is no evidence about what the club will do now. By all evidence, they are a club that is moving in an opposite direction from the Owls, as painful as that is to contemplate. They were relegated in 2018 - under their new ownership and finished 7 points behind us last season despite of abysmal second half of the campaign. They were run frugally under previous ownership previously with emphasis on youth, their academy has been well regarded long before their new ownership. I wouldn't bank on them sustaining better than where they are now for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamakua Pueo Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 10 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: They were relegated in 2018 - under their new ownership and finished 7 points behind us last season despite of abysmal second half of the campaign. They were run frugally under previous ownership previously with emphasis on youth, their academy has been well regarded long before their new ownership. I wouldn't bank on them sustaining better than where they are now for long. I don’t disagree with any of that. It has been puzzling how willing they were to sell off the youngish players that got them promoted back to the Championship, rebuild with extreme youth, and then fail to protect against relegation in the January 2020 window. They were enormously lucky not to go back down last year. I think the second time in the past decade Barnsley has been the beneficiary of some one else’s point deduction. My strongest position is simply that we don’t know for sure that they won’t start investing more. It would be rational for them to do so, in a Brentfordish sort of way. I can’t see what they are getting out of it if they don’t, because their current model doesn’t seem to be very lucrative, even if the downside risk of loss is small. But then the behavior of wealthy foreign owners who buy EFL clubs is a total mystery. That lot seem relatively sane, but only relatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnssweetshop Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 paxo and chansiri 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbelow Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 On 14/02/2021 at 12:21, Tollertonowl said: Agreed - I expect us to finish above them (and Rotherham) in the league this year (incl. the 6 Points deduction)... I'm also pretty suspect on this entire Topic being a wind up given the title and then some further comments... Just out of interest pal, what makes you think we will finish above them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbelow Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 17 hours ago, PortlandOwl said: Moneyball Unfortunately it wont work in Football, no salary cap so you cant find hidden values and even though baseball is a team games its really pitcher against batter and at times its batter against the fielding team. The fact that there is no relegation in the MLB allows you to take the long view. In today's football environment that is simply not possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legendaryswan Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 On 14/02/2021 at 23:41, Dot said: ?? I'm not sure I understand? are you saying Brentford followed the barnsley model? getting relegated on the pitch and staying up because another team were docked points? Barnsley have done it for years before Brentford, theyve refined what they do now down to a fine art,theyre light years ahead of us even on their tiny budget. Lets face it,if they had to sell their starting 11 tomorrow theyd make a HUGE profit,theyve got clubs queing up to buy their first team players,where as wed be lucky to sell our starting 11 even if they were given frees, Shaw apart. Barnsley are in the division over Wigan,because they played by the rules,Wigan didnt,and the penalties for this are well known 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 What's the biggest cakeball they've ever had though eh? Answer me that! Not a world record holding one I'll wager! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiejohn Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 They have a formula/system that works for them, it wouldn’t work for us. At the end of the season they will sell most of their best players and if that results in relegation it won’t be a disaster. If chansiri adopted the Barnsley way he’d be slaughtered 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legendaryswan Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, jamiejohn said: They have a formula/system that works for them, it wouldn’t work for us. At the end of the season they will sell most of their best players and if that results in relegation it won’t be a disaster. If chansiri adopted the Barnsley way he’d be slaughtered Theyl sell the players they can easily replace for a price they cant turn down. Brentford do the same hasnt hurt them,sell high re invest,brexit might narrow the field down though now for such as Brentford who cast the net far wider than Barnsley. Chansiri is already getting slaughtered on here and he reckons hes spent 350M,thats most likely TWICE the spend of Brentford and Barnsley combined and wel be in league one next season,and by way more than the 6 points we got deducted! Wel go down by around 10 points ,were easily the 3rd worst team in the division,the sad thing is,we will fall hard under the current leader,I can see us dropping straight through into 4th tier football and huge debt. Strap in kid the worst is yet to come 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Barnsley are, pound for pound, the most successful team in this area, and have been for years. In my lifetime The Reds have played most of their football in the second tier, which for a club of that size is some achievement. When you consider the resources of Leeds and the Sheffield clubs by comparison, all three would be permanent fixtures in the PL were they to do as well. We're an unmitigated shambles because of Captain Chaos and Paxo, but Barnsley have been doing relatively better than us for years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiejohn Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 6 hours ago, legendaryswan said: Theyl sell the players they can easily replace for a price they cant turn down. Brentford do the same hasnt hurt them,sell high re invest,brexit might narrow the field down though now for such as Brentford who cast the net far wider than Barnsley. Chansiri is already getting slaughtered on here and he reckons hes spent 350M,thats most likely TWICE the spend of Brentford and Barnsley combined and wel be in league one next season,and by way more than the 6 points we got deducted! Wel go down by around 10 points ,were easily the 3rd worst team in the division,the sad thing is,we will fall hard under the current leader,I can see us dropping straight through into 4th tier football and huge debt. Strap in kid the worst is yet to come I’m not saying the Brentford/ Barnsley way isn’t the way chansiri should have gone neither am I advocating how he has done things. I just believe that if for instance he had sold forestieri, bannan and hooper after Wembley and replaced them with unknowns the meltdown would have been huge. Unfortunately we don’t have the patience or mindset for a long term plan, most fans were more than happy for him to spend big and go for it no matter the potential pitfalls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modboy Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 On 18/02/2021 at 21:07, Earlsfieldowl said: They have a leadership/management team that know something about running a football club. We don’t This. Part of a global footballing strategy owned by one of the richest owners in the world. Difference is they are running the club sustainably (well as much as you can in football) with a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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