Animis Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Sheff74 said: I think they decided to pursue the FFP breach, after dropping the misconduct charge. Sounds like they suspected foul play, so wanted to nail us for that. Didn't have enough evidence, so then just went for what they could prove. Not sure where this leaves us, or them in terms of an appeal. The thing is, the EFL submitted the 'misconduct' charges to the independent panel, after dropping the personal/individual charges against the then three SWFC Directors. It seems to me that it's the independent panel that's essential kicked-out the misconduct charge against SWFC, not the EFL dropping it. So, we are left essentially appealing the standard £39m/3-yr breach, which has a precedent in Birmingham FC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 If I were Derby I would be a bit worried now. Looks like the EFL will try and take it out on them having failed with us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, sheffsteel said: At first glance...it seems natural to think SWFC guilty as charged....take it on the chin and apply the deduction this season. However if SW do appeal....then it seems weird that the timing of BCFC punishment effectively meant ZERO punishment. The timing is key and open to manipulation....but doesn’t seem right where 2 clubs commit similar misdoings...one has a 12 point deduction whereas the other escapes any effective punishment . This is the issue for me. It’s alright saying we broke the rules and therefore should be punished. Simple deduction of 12 points is not the punishment. The actual punishment is the impact those 12 points have. If the EFL attempt and are allowed to manipulate when the deduction is applied then they are in effect manipulating the punishment which is unfair and should be challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) Weren’t Birmingham punished the year after their actual offence? Edited August 16, 2020 by sonofbert2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddogbob Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Just now, sonofbert2 said: Weren’t Birmingham punished the year after their actual offence? Yup. Hence they can use that as an excuse. Simple fact of the matter, had we run the club correctly in the first place however, we wouldn't be in this mess. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southie_Owl Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, Owls-Fan said: I thought the same, why can’t the deduction be put into the record books for the correct season? Interesting point, I wonder what teams would complain then? Wouldn’t effect anyone’s league status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Can you imagine how long Gibson and Parry have spent on the phone to each other during this whole debacle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Maddogbob said: Yup. Hence they can use that as an excuse. Simple fact of the matter, had we run the club correctly in the first place however, we wouldn't be in this mess. It’s a strange one then because it seems because the EFL cocked up the initial charges and timings it looks like we’ve escaped relegation this season when in reality it is not the case at all. Reyt malarky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Dom saying the club received the written reasons on 4th August. Details will be released tomorrow and then us and the EFL have until Tuesday to appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s73owl Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 36 minutes ago, prowl said: You can't argue 'They have their rules' when they manipulate their own rules in a deliberate attemp to send a club down. If they were working to 'their rules' they wouldn't have tried to delay the penalty until it sent us down. I would appeal the decision on the basis that it shows bad faith by the EFL/Rick Parry. If the penalty was deliberately delayed by the EFL, it should in all fairness be applied in the year it was earned not in a year to suit the EFL's malicious intent. I would take it to the courts not the EFL's jurisdiction. I'd also be going after Parry and the EFL for punitive damages, we would be unlikely to get them but it will get their attention. English law is slow to award punitive or exemplary damages. They are rarely seen in commercial disputes where the measure of damages tends to be compensatory. Nonetheless, as a matter of legal principle, punitive damages are available for all torts that involve a wilful element on the part of the TORTFEASOR?? You just made that word up surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthndav Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Surely the EFL have been acting in bad faith here. There's surely grounds to appeal in its own right alone 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Claw Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Not really bothered tbh, think it was 2015?weeds had a 15 point deduction and ended up in the play off. This must be the wawaw meltdown thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellbeaten-the-owl Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) Too late for EFL to appeal for penalty this season just gone BUT sounds we have 2 avenues for an appeal 1) appeal on grounds EFL approved ground transaction in first place. 2) appeal that charges should have been brought s year earlier. Edited August 16, 2020 by wellbeaten-the-owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 minute ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said: Too late for EFL to appeal for penalty this season just gone BUT sounds we have 2 avenues for an appeal 1) appeal on grounds EFL approved ground transaction in first place. 2) appeal that charges should have been brought s year earlier. If number 1 was the case wouldn’t we have been doing not guilty in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowl Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, StudentOwl said: Say you don't wear a seatbelt in your old car. You get a new car, with the old one going to the scrapheap (you get no money for scrap parts). CCTV finds you never wore a seatbelt in your old car... and the punishment is for you to take your old car away. See how that doesn't work? That is the same rationale as to why backdating the points deduction doesn't work as a punishment. You're right of course with what you're posting, but you're posting something against something I haven't said. I've never said a points deduction isn't a punishment, nor have I said it should be done at a point that should maximise the punishment a club receives. I'm saying that using a backdated points deduction makes no sense because it's no punishment whatsoever... much like taking away a car you scrapped two years ago is no punishment. If you don't wear a seatbelt in your car and it's written off, you may get a replacement car. You only get a new one if yours is less than 12 months old and you bought it new. The fact you weren't wearing a seatbelt is irrelevant. If you are injured in the accident and weren't wearing a seatbelt it may affect any pay out you get for your injuries. Your premise is wrong so your argument fails..The 2 things are totally different anyway. The EFL rules say a points deduction will be applied. I can't remember seeing the bit about 'when it does the most damage'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, WalthamOwl said: Dom saying the club received the written reasons on 4th August. Details will be released tomorrow and then us and the EFL have until Tuesday to appeal. So Dom has only just found this out having previously reported that we hadn't received the report as yet. If either party does choose to launch an appeal will it be made public immediately or if they choose not to will it be formally announced on Wednesday that no appeals have been made an the matter is closed? What could the EFL appeal? That the penalty should have been applied last season? If they do appeal it is unlikely to be sorted anytime soon and they release fixtures n Friday, altering which clubs are in which division after the confirmation of fixtures could be a logistical nightmare, not as simple as just swapping our fixtures with Charlton's for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevthelodgemoorowl Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 4 hours ago, vulva said: Agenda? FFS. Open your eyes. If the EFL has the ear of one or group of members (Gibson & Co) then yes, that falls within the realm of being a negative Agenda ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, prowl said: If you don't wear a seatbelt in your car and it's written off, you may get a replacement car. You only get a new one if yours is less than 12 months old and you bought it new. The fact you weren't wearing a seatbelt is irrelevant. If you are injured in the accident and weren't wearing a seatbelt it may affect any pay out you get for your injuries. Your premise is wrong so your argument fails..The 2 things are totally different anyway. The EFL rules say a points deduction will be applied. I can't remember seeing the bit about 'when it does the most damage'. I never said it was written off. You never wore a seatbelt two years ago (broke the rules). You scrap the car two years ago (end of season 17/18). Two years after the fact, CCTV footage notes you broke the rules a couple of years ago (the FFP charge). You can't then backdate the punishment by two years and take away the old car (backdating the points deduction to the 17/18 table), because that's no punishment at all. You don't have the car any more. You're not in the 17/18 season any more. Backdating the points deduction is no punishment at all and makes zero sense. In absolutely no way have I said therefore starting the 20/21 season with a 12 points deduction is justified. What I am saying (that very few people are advocating for tbf) is that backdating the points deduction to a previous season makes as much sense as taking a car away from you that you no longer own. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Edited August 16, 2020 by StudentOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, rickygoo said: Parry said the parachute payments are wrong. It’s the PL that pay them and want to keep them . Who’s going to win that one? The EFL are allowing these failure payments in the championship. The buck stops with them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyTrev Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, Maddogbob said: Yup. Hence they can use that as an excuse. Ah, the old “well we were late with their punishment so can be late with yours” argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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