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Breaking news. SWFC v EFL


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1 hour ago, StudentOwl said:

For the third time...

*inhales*

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN PRIZE MONEY DEPENDING ON LEAGUE POSITION. IF WE BACKDATE THE POINTS DEDUCTION, THERE IS ZERO PUNISHMENT

*exhales*

 

And I don't think anyone would sanely say we deserve no punishment whatsoever. So it isn't an option.

 

Surely it is irrelevant the damage any deduction does? If the cap for a deduction for breaching P&S is -12, and -12 doesn't result in relegation, then is that the fault of the club?

 

The punishment is a points deduction. That IS a punishment. If it isnt enough to relegate a team, tough. Those are the rules. They surely can't be enforced at a time of maximum impact, but rather when the offence was committed.

 

Yes it is different with clubs entering Administration, but that is clearly spelled out. I do not believe the rules say that points deductions for breaches of P&S only come into effect when it will either relegate a team, or deny them promotion.

Edited by axolotl
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2 minutes ago, OwlBiSeeinThi said:

I thought the period of breach was 15/16, 16/17, 17/18 which is why the punishment should have been applied in 18/19.

 

Regardless of who messed up where there should be a time limit as to when a punishment can be applied for a specific three year period.

 

If the EFL can't meet that deadline they miss the boat.

Same for clubs with appeals.

 

That's right, same period as Birmingham who received a 9 point deduction for this in 2018-19. 

 

As you say, it can't be right that clubs can be punished in different seasons for an offence occurring in the same 3-year period.

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We had a go spent on better playing side which got close twice then since Carlos went we have hardly spent any money? Been under embargo soft embargo sold our ground and finished with a far worse playing side than before we spent? Efl repeatedly said we complying with there plans going forward then try to shaft us and dock us points that should have been taken away season b4? All this because basically any club that been in this league for a few seasons can’t affectivly compete with teams coming down from premier? We broke the rules and should get punished but punished at the correct time of the offence? The rules need changing if you have money you should be allowed to spend it how you see fit? Like having money for top of the range car but only being allowed to spend on family saloon stinks 

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So do we all still hate the EFL for supposedly having it in for us and being supposedly corrupt, or should we be sending them a thank you card for being so incompetent that they spared us relegation?

 

Asking for a friend, called Rick.

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21 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/89590/sheff-weds-decision-12-points-next-season/p13

 

Charlton meltdown lol

 

It's from their angle obv, they don't realise how badly we have been messed about with it, they skip that bit 

If I were a Charlton fan I’d be more annoyed with how utterly dog s**t they were all last season if I’m being honest.

 

Any side that had us do the double over them last season deserved to go down.

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4 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

That's right, same period as Birmingham who received a 9 point deduction for this in 2018-19. 

 

As you say, it can't be right that clubs can be punished in different seasons for an offence occurring in the same 3-year period.

That's not right.

 

Birmingham "should" have been charged in 2017/18, which would have relegated them.

 

They brought charges 1 year late so missed out, if our charges were on time we would have been ok so EFL waited to be late again. 

 

To make us the example Birmingham should have been

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5 minutes ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

That's not right.

 

Birmingham "should" have been charged in 2017/18, which would have relegated them.

 

They brought charges 1 year late so missed out, if our charges were on time we would have been ok so EFL waited to be late again. 

 

To make us the example Birmingham should have been

 

They can't bring charges for a 3-year period ending 2017-18 as the 2017-18 accounts are not prepared by that time, the punishment is applied the following season when the accounts should be filed with Companies House or when the additional estimated/predicted accounts are filed with the EFL. 

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2 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

The clubs

 

It's not the clubs that press forward with the cases and how they are put forward though is it?

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EFL tactics that back-fired. In the end, we breached the 3-yr FFP rules, so we will have a points deduction next season.

 

I still think we'll appeal, as I can't see what difference there is to Birmingham's case two seasons ago and they got 9 points.

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Just now, Animis said:

EFL tactics that back-fired. In the end, we breached the 3-yr FFP rules, so we will have a points deduction next season.

 

I still think we'll appeal, as I can't see what difference there is to Birmingham's case two seasons ago and they got 9 points.

 

If the figures quoted in the article are right, our P&S losses were around £9M more than Birmingham's so maybe that was a factor in why our deduction is bigger.

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23 minutes ago, axolotl said:

 

Surely it is irrelevant the damage any deduction does? If the cap for a deduction for breaching P&S is -12, and -12 doesn't result in relegation, then is that the fault of the club?

 

The punishment is a points deduction. That IS a punishment. If it isnt enough to relegate a team, tough. Those are the rules. They surely can't be enforced at a time of maximum impact, but rather when the offence was committed.

 

Yes it is different with clubs entering Administration, but that is clearly spelled out. I do not believe the rules say that points deductions for breaches of P&S only come into effect when it will either relegate a team, or deny them promotion.

Say you don't wear a seatbelt in your old car. You get a new car, with the old one going to the scrapheap (you get no money for scrap parts). CCTV finds you never wore a seatbelt in your old car... and the punishment is for you to take your old car away.

See how that doesn't work?

 

That is the same rationale as to why backdating the points deduction doesn't work as a punishment. 

 

You're right of course with what you're posting, but you're posting something against something I haven't said. I've never said a points deduction isn't a punishment, nor have I said it should be done at a point that should maximise the punishment a club receives. I'm saying that using a backdated points deduction makes no sense because it's no punishment whatsoever... much like taking away a car you scrapped two years ago is no punishment.  

 

Edited by StudentOwl
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8 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

If the figures quoted in the article are right, our P&S losses were around £9M more than Birmingham's so maybe that was a factor in why our deduction is bigger.

I think you are right. There are various thresholds determining the points deduction.

 

I've no problem with the points deducted. We breached and have to take the hit. It's just the circumstances of when applied.

 

We'll have to wait and see what the full report says. It could be huge, or another case of wishful thinking.

Edited by OwlBiSeeinThi
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2 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

Say you don't wear a seatbelt in your old car. You get a new car, with the old one going to the scrapheap (you get no money for scrap parts). CCTV finds you never wore a seatbelt in your old car... and the punishment is for you to take your old car away.

See how that doesn't work?

 

That is the same rationale as to why backdating the points deduction doesn't work as a punishment. 

 

You're right of course with what you're posting, but you're posting something against something I haven't said. I've never said a points deduction isn't a punishment, nor have I said it should be done at a point that should maximise the punishment a club receives. I'm saying that using a backdated points deduction makes no sense because it's no punishment whatsoever... much like taking away a car you scrapped two years ago is no punishment.  

 

No, you cant just backdate them. Obviously, the punishment has to have some sort of material impact. Otherwise, what's the point?

 

However, you should not have those bringing the charges actively waiting to bring them as and when they please, just so the charges can cause maximum impact and damage. The EFL could have brought these charges much sooner, but delayed the process intentionally.

 

 

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