East Yorks Owl Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 There’s something depressingly familiar about the mess our club and our owner finds itself in. I personally can’t understand why any sane individual would invest their hard earned into a football club. It appears to be a horribly high risk investment and even with a degree of success along the way, it ultimately is destined to end in tears for the majority of clubs. Using my local club, Hull as an example, they’ve actually gained promotion to the PL twice in recent years but currently are struggling to cling onto Championship survival with owners who have seemingly given up on the club. Their opponents last night, Villa, have spent all those years in the PL yet financially have nothing but debt to show for it. Even sssuming one day DC could see our club in the PL, does that really guarantee his investment will be a success? With the exception of the elite top flight clubs, everyone else appears to be battling to minimise losses at best. The players seem to hold much of the power, but few if any risks. I know if I was DC I would find it very difficult to award contracts that the club can’t effectively afford. It’s a crazy business model that seemingly demands an owner to underwrite never ending losses to afford any chance of progression on the pitch and once promotion has been gained to the PL the risks just move onto a higher level ( as clubs such as Bolton and Sunderland have experienced). Its pretty obvious DC has made mistakes, but in fairness to the bloke our fan base was desperate for somebody to have a go and he’s definitely done that. I just find it sad that he’s probably regretting bitterly the whole venture and there won’t be an easy way out (as the Hull owner has found out). Personally I rarely attend more than a handful of Wednesday games each year, so I don’t feel as invested as many, but I do have some sympathy for DC as I feel the financial framework supporting football is horribly flawed. I haven’t much else to add apart from encouraging fans to show some tolerance and patience. Hopefully this season will offer some much needed hope, but irrespective of results there are still far worse things in life than losing a football match. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitcat Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I certainly wouldn't invest and we should all be grateful that DC did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Think its "Some are , some are not mate liverpool arsenal man Utd etc.... hasn't someone offered 1.8 billion for Arsenal this week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Yorks Owl Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, asteener1867 said: Think its "Some are , some are not mate liverpool arsenal man Utd etc.... hasn't someone offered 1.8 billion for Arsenal this week? In a way Kroenke’s takeover bid for Arsenal underlines the financial gulf between the elite clubs and the rest. Could DC sensibly ever expect Wednesday to achieve such financial success; I honestly don’t think so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brommers Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 23 minutes ago, asteener1867 said: Think its "Some are , some are not mate liverpool arsenal man Utd etc.... hasn't someone offered 1.8 billion for Arsenal this week? But eve with those sums, neither the club nor supporters benefit, will simply be paid out to existing shareholders. I agree with the OP, the model seems to be counter productive, so much money in the game but majority of clubs making enormous losses. Can't see it changing but there needs to be a huge cap on players wages as this is where most of the money goes out of football (or via agents fees). If the games administrators want to improve things (and I'm really talking Premier league here), why don't they place a chunk of the TV rights money into a pot to use as capital Reserves for each club to stop them spending it, different amounts for each club depending on their annual turnover. A bit like banks now have to hold certain levels of capital to cover future financial collapses as we saw not too long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsheri Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Football is going down the toilet.. And faster than people think. The prem is a closed shop and will become more so. Parachute payments make an absolute mockery of FFP and even if a non prem club gets a rich owner they can't spend it. Brentford is the way forward for lots of clubs..develop young players, have a good scouting system and get a manager in who knows what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 37 minutes ago, East Yorks Owl said: There’s something depressingly familiar about the mess our club and our owner finds itself in. I personally can’t understand why any sane individual would invest their hard earned into a football club. It appears to be a horribly high risk investment and even with a degree of success along the way, it ultimately is destined to end in tears for the majority of clubs. Using my local club, Hull as an example, they’ve actually gained promotion to the PL twice in recent years but currently are struggling to cling onto Championship survival with owners who have seemingly given up on the club. Their opponents last night, Villa, have spent all those years in the PL yet financially have nothing but debt to show for it. Even sssuming one day DC could see our club in the PL, does that really guarantee his investment will be a success? With the exception of the elite top flight clubs, everyone else appears to be battling to minimise losses at best. The players seem to hold much of the power, but few if any risks. I know if I was DC I would find it very difficult to award contracts that the club can’t effectively afford. It’s a crazy business model that seemingly demands an owner to underwrite never ending losses to afford any chance of progression on the pitch and once promotion has been gained to the PL the risks just move onto a higher level ( as clubs such as Bolton and Sunderland have experienced). Its pretty obvious DC has made mistakes, but in fairness to the bloke our fan base was desperate for somebody to have a go and he’s definitely done that. I just find it sad that he’s probably regretting bitterly the whole venture and there won’t be an easy way out (as the Hull owner has found out). Personally I rarely attend more than a handful of Wednesday games each year, so I don’t feel as invested as many, but I do have some sympathy for DC as I feel the financial framework supporting football is horribly flawed. I haven’t much else to add apart from encouraging fans to show some tolerance and patience. Hopefully this season will offer some much needed hope, but irrespective of results there are still far worse things in life than losing a football match. My Brother lives just outside Hull and he too feels your pain from the glory days with Windass in the team a lot has changed at the club. But all is not lost at the clubs if the club is properly run and does not try to run before it can walk they can prosper Burnley are a great example for us all, a team in a city of around 70,000 though hard work and progress have risen to the elite, they have a good manager that is able to bring in players and improve them something that seems to have been lost in football with this instance success aspect that now exists every where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodwickOwl Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 The whole model needs to change for football to become better all around - for all teams in every league Footballers just shouldn't be handed 40k a week contracts without being set KPI's etc Maybe as technology grows in the game - footballers can be handed performance based KPI's to hit across 5 games or so to warrant X amount a week in wages - pass rates, goals, assists - but even more granular than that as we get closer to the statistics, whatever that is I dont know. Injuries etc too - the Abdi situation highlights how farcical it is that being a footballer and injured means you still get paid anyway - doesn't happen in any other line of work if you're injured 2 years solid with full pay. Of course - its not going to happen at all. No footballer would sign up to a club exclusively offering these sort of deals - it would take intervention at the top to say these are how contracts should be written up in the leagues to avoid teams getting into financial trouble and winding up. If everyone was paid based on how well they perform, the standard of the game would most probably rise across all leagues too. The game will go bust before that happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regulator Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 The moment that we decided to line players’ and agents’ pockets with all of the cash coming from TV was the day that football died. It has pushed wages into the stratosphere, not only for PL players but for players in leagues below too. Sustainability (the S in P&S) starts with those that govern the game and decisions should have been taken long ago to stop the rot that is now happening. The game, beyond the top echelons is bankrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradowl Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I put a lot of blame with the agents, take massive amounts of money out of game, they spend half of time pushing there players to make moves even though they're happy at club they're at just to have a quick pay day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 The invention of the undisclosed fee has helped with his, in a world where transfer dealing should be transparent, we have undisclosed fees because the two clubs are not the only ones in deals there the signing on fee, the agents split, the sell on clause etc. Bring football back to the people and stop the cloak and dagger approach to football it will only go one way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frastheowl Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Football, outside the Premier League, is stuck between a rock and a hard place. In order for clubs to compete with the obscene parachute payment clubs, they need to spend money. Most clubs cannot spend the amount of money required, purely by using their own turnover. It's simply a drop in the ocean. Therefore, Football League clubs with aspirations of promotion, need external investment, often from foreign owners. Yet the Football League make it extrememly difficult for these owners to spend whats required to achieve that success. It's a Catch 22. And it won't be long until investors start to think twice about ploughing money into a club, who at best, are 6th-7th in line when it comes to spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torres Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 34 minutes ago, frastheowl said: Football, outside the Premier League, is stuck between a rock and a hard place. In order for clubs to compete with the obscene parachute payment clubs, they need to spend money. Most clubs cannot spend the amount of money required, purely by using their own turnover. It's simply a drop in the ocean. Therefore, Football League clubs with aspirations of promotion, need external investment, often from foreign owners. Yet the Football League make it extrememly difficult for these owners to spend whats required to achieve that success. It's a Catch 22. And it won't be long until investors start to think twice about ploughing money into a club, who at best, are 6th-7th in line when it comes to spending. You can gain promotion without gambling the clubs future away. The trouble is most people that run football clubs don't have the first clue about football - ours included. The successful ones surround themselves by the right people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modboy Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Good way to move money out of certain counties still though believe China are closing that loophole. To be successful it seems season long loans of decent players are the way forward, will the championship almost become a feeder league for the big boys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Think it has been for a long time, increasingly so in the championship where it is near impossible without compromising FFP /P&S unless you are one of the EFL's favourites with parachute payments, in which case they can pretty much do as they like and the EFL will quite happily bend over and take it up the arse while looking the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buxtongent Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Much as we as fans do not like FFP or F&S, it has a simple basis.Throughout a three year period , a club must lose only a fixed amount of money, and must show that it can pay its debts, such as wages, tax, loans etc.. We can blame the big clubs, the players and their agents, and many more, but we must accept the days of big money coming.in are over. We are in the situation where we have an extremely rich owner, who has said he is prepared to spend big, but is prevented from doing so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan_Pepper Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Players and agents are taking more money out of the game than there is coming in to it at all but the top level. Then those at the very top level are all owned by the Glaizers etc and they're taking money out too. It can't last. The only way it stops is if we stop paying players and their agents so much money and build a 10-20 year plan based on youth development. Unfortunately nobody wants to be the first team to drop out of the footballer arms race because they'll get slaughtered by the fans. Only people doing it right are teams like Brentford where they're playing the system and getting the money in selling on potential and keeping a cheaper squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beloved_aunt Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 The intention of FFP is to pull the drawer bridge up. The elite clubs do not want another Man City or Chelsea (or Blackburn if you go back far enough) joining their ranks on the back of investment from a sugar daddy. More competition means they've got less chance to win stuff and won't have as many fans in the far east. At our level this means they want to limit the number of clubs who can get into the Premier League so they rig it with parachute payments and FFP rules which mean relegated clubs are allowed to lose more money in one year than we are in three. I can understand why its not healthy to have football clubs built on loans and debt (eg Man Utd bought against the assets the Glazers didn't even own yet, or us buying players from money Dave Allen lent us and expecting back with interest) but if a faceless sugar daddy wants to chuck their fortune at a football club and is clearly willing to cover the costs why shouldn't they be allowed to? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quist Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Outside of Champions league benefactors not investors are required. Due to the stupidity of some of the top teams backed by multi-billionaires it is doubtful money will be made any where. Although good players transfer fees over £100 million and wages in excess of £1 million a week are just silly sums. With TV revenue reaching its max expect somebody to come unstuck big style in next couple of years. Needs regulation on agents as they are fueling situation and taking money out of game which can be ill afforded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkinsfootballboots Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Simple answer.....players wages. when one player gets 400k a week that trickles down to other players to the extent that average lower league players demand 30-50k a week. The prize for promotion is so great that clubs do anything to get there. Players agents know that and ask stupid money as one club will pay it eventually. salary cap is what’s needed like in super league. Clubs should only be able to spend 80% of turnover on wages. That would sort out the Mess in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now