Man of the match & Ratings - Charlton (H)

[beswetherick]

3 people voted Pato MOTM

 

 

[legendaryswan]

1 minute ago, beswetherick said:

3 people voted Pato MOTM

 

 

I heard 3 people in southey green didnt get there bins emptied last week, coincidence....

[ItzzOwl]

2 hours ago, beswetherick said:

Byers. Changed the game, best player at the club at the moment

really cheers my swansea supporting mate up when he asks how hes played…he was baffled when they let him go, even more so when he realised the fee!

[Drewswfc]

Stockdale 6

Hunt 5.5 

Ik 6 

Henegan 7 

Palmer 8  mom

Johnson 5 

Vaulks 4 

Fizzy 4.5 

Bannan 4 

Paterson  5 

Windass 7 

 

Gregory 7.5 

Byers 7.5 

Bakinson 7.5 

Sow n James both did well when they came on.

 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

10 hours ago, Bleeder said:

Kinell. I thought Henegan was scary 

 

He was excellent in the air.

 

He won more headers than the rest of our team put together and kept Stockley pretty quiet.

Edited August 14, 2022 by areNOTwhatTHEYseem

[Bleeder]

8 hours ago, nethertonowl said:

And the games only judged on now comfortable you are playing out from the back is it?, So you never came on here last season , when the site was in meltdown after conceding goals from set pieces in the air. Check out Charltons board, its full of comments about Stockley being dominated in the air and winning  f--  all.

Of course it's not... and that's not what I wrote.

 

He looks very ponderous to me. Watched him play 6 times now and he looks very nervous under pressure.

 

Don't care if he hoofs it or simply plays it back to the keeper as long as he makes his decision and gets on with it. Lucky to get away with it at times yesterday.... of all positions, composure a great asset at centre back. Hopefully will settle.

[Holmowl]

10 hours ago, frastheowl said:

 

Stockdale - 7 - Made of couple of saves you'd expect him to make, but did so without any bother. Not sure what went off regarding the Palmer/Heneghan mix-up, but that was a massive let off. Two clean sheets following the opening day shambles is a solid response though.

 

Ihiekwe - 7 - Defensively did OK. Still think he gets stuck into midfield too easily, which leaves space in behind. But, on the whole, did his job. Like Heneghan, I'm not convinced he's comfortable with playing out from the back.

 

Heneghan - 6 - Aerially, he was good. Against two giants, he more than held his own, and you can see why Moore pursued him. However, he's clearly uncomfortable and very limited when it comes to playing from the back. He needs to improve, otherwise it could become a bit of an issue for us.

 

Palmer - 7 - Thought he did alright, but the Charlton had the legs on him, and on a couple of occasions left him for dead. Battled away, and did a job at wing back, despite his touch failing him on more than one occasion. He's reliable, which you can't ask for more than that.

 

Hunt - 5 - His lack of a burst of pace limited him today. Failed to get little change out of the rapid Sessegnon. 

 

Johnson - 5 - Was asked to do a lot of defending today, due to our inability to pass a football for over an hour, which never brings the best out in him. Disappointed in his final ball on the occasions he did get some space in front of him.

 

Vaulks - 5 - I expressed my concerns regarding Vaulks in this system before the game, and today has only strengthened that belief. He's not a ball player, and we simply need one in that midfield two. He plugged away, but his use of the ball simply wasn't good enough.

 

Dele-Bashiru - 5 - Frustrating game. Like Vaulks, he's not a ball player, he's a carrier, and although he showed glimpses today, too often his poor decision making reared its ugly head again. Today was an example of why he's probably difficult to rely on if your Darren Moore and picking your XI.

 

Bannan - 4 - Dear me... wasn't he hopeless. I don't think he enjoys the advanced role, and it shows in his play. It doesn't suit him, and it certainly isn't suiting us at present. We are struggling to get the ball into him, and when we do, he's not finding the space he usually does. As a result, he's back to trying to force things and trying Hollywood balls that aren't on. Moore has caused himself one helluva a selection dilemma, because we cannot continue with Bannan's lack of impact or performances for much longer.

 

Paterson - 4 - Hopeless.

 

Windass - 6 - Frustrated for the most part. Like Bannan, very much on the periphery...until we took Bannan off, and dropped him into the No.10 spot. Where he showed what we should expect from that role. He found space (granted, Charlton were probably pushing their midfield on after the goal), got himself into dangerous positions, and produced a match-winning assist.

 

Gregory - 7 - Showed Paterson what a centre forward display should look like. Held the ball up, looked strong, ran in behind. Proper, proper player.

 

Byers - 7 - Changed the game, along with Gregory & Bakinson. Linked the defence and attack effortlessly. Mopped up defensively. He's a very good player, that needs to play...especially in this system. Don't feel like I can give a mark of more than 7 for a performance little over 30 minutes.

 

Bakinson - 7 - Man of the Match - Like Byers, he looks like a Rolls Royce. Seems to play the game two or three moves ahead of anybody else. Created himself a load of space, used the ball really well, and started and finished the winning goal. He's given Moore something to think about. Edged the other game changers, Byers and Gregory, to Man of the Match, simply due to his winning goal.

 

James - N/A - Did his job, looked tidy on the ball.

 

Sow - N/A - Energetic cameo. 

 

Overall...

 

Utterly woeful for 60 minutes. And the criticism I have, isn't towards the players...it's towards Moore. Now, I've got no tactical qualification, no coaching badges, nothing...but 45 minutes into the Portsmouth game, at a time when we were winning 1-0, I could see, as clear as day, the issues with this system, its imbalances, the limitations of our new signings and our struggles to get Bannan involved in the game.

 

And following MK Dons, once again, sent out with the same failing system, encountered the same issues, I expressed my concerns on here again, despite a 1-0 victory. And before the game today, in the "Team for Charlton" thread, I stated the problems again.

 

And surprise, surprise, Moore sent out, yet another, ill-thought out, imbalanced side, and our football and impact of our best player suffered yet again.

 

Now, this isn't me being smart...I'm not, far from it. But, if I can see the blindingly obvious flaws, just 45 minutes into the season, then why can't our very well paid, and extensive coaching team?

 

Surely enough is enough now. Stop picking sides on results, and start looking at performances. Byers HAS to start...Bakinson has thrust himself right into the mix with a fantastic cameo display, and Adeniran, bizarrely not even on the bench, did himself no harm on Wednesday. 

 

And I've not even going to start on picking/signing a back three, uncomfortable/incapable of taking control of the football, and insisting on playing from the back. But that's for another day.

 

I can't help but feel, that our positive results, are just a false dawn, like we had at the start of last season. Performances have been poor, issues are aplenty. Our stronger strength in depth won that game today, and maybe Moore might have stumbled across a solution with his substitutions in the 2nd half...but where does Bannan fit into it? How long do we accept poor performances from our best player? Or will Moore remain stubbornly rigid to his new, failing system?

 

Very enjoyable post as always in this thread.

 

Would you mind elaborating on your ‘system’ thoughts? Are you specifically talking about playing out from the back and Bannan’s too advanced role? 

[Bleeder]

4 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

He was excellent in the air.

 

He won more headers than the rest of our team put together and kept Stockley pretty quiet.

I agree. He was good in the air and he's very good at closing down and giving little space....

[Holmowl]

10 hours ago, Bleeder said:

Kinell. I thought Henegan was scary 

First half he was terrifying on the ball, but at HT Moore cured it. 
 

New thread about BenHen.

[frastheowl]

55 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

Very enjoyable post as always in this thread.

 

Would you mind elaborating on your ‘system’ thoughts? Are you specifically talking about playing out from the back and Bannan’s too advanced role? 

 

Essentially yeah, but they are both contributing to much less effective attacking output.

 

The issues stem from Bannan's much higher position.

 

No.10's in any system, whether it be 3-4-1-2, or 4-2-3-1, 4-3-1-2 or any other variation, rely on others getting the ball to them in advanced positions. And how that system gets the ball to them, can be varied also? But, essentially, you need either midfielders in a double pivot behind the No.10 to be ball-players and are adept in collecting the ball from deep and passing through the thirds to connect the No.10... Or, you have defenders who can do exactly that. Or, in an ideal world, both!

 

Against Portsmouth, we looked perhaps relatively our most potent, from an attacking point of view (although drastically less than last season), because we had Byers in that double pivot, who did manage to achieve that link-up to a point. However, since then, Moore has persisted with Vaulks and Dele-Bashiru. Vaulks isn't a ball-player, in any sense of the word, and struggled to link things last week and this. And Dele-Bashiru, for as good as he was in the 1st game (and towards the end of the 2nd, ironically in the No.10 position), isn't a player who'll link up play. It's not his game to drop deep and collect the ball...he's a ball carrier...a passer of the ball, he is not.

 

The issues in the back line are there for all to see. Ihiekwe and Heneghan have both come from teams that made very few passes into midfield, and have been used to playing with a safety first approach in mind. That's not their fault...but either we need to show patience with them, to become comfortable with the expectations we demand from them, or start to seriously question the recruitment of two of our key defenders.

 

Last season, Bannan was given the licence to get forward more, but at no point was his starting position as high as it has been in the 1st 3 games this season. I had a quick look last night, and I might do a thread on it if I get time, and compared Bannan's average touches/90 minutes and key passes/90 minutes over last season and our first 3 games, and the contrast is startling. 

 

For me, if Bannan is to continue in this role, there's only Byers & Bakinson (something I stated on here, after the Portsmouth game) capable to playing in the midfield roles behind him (maybe Alex Hunt)...but then you have to start questioning the recruitment once again. An alternative, would be Windass playing in the No.10 role, and Bannan dropping into the deeper roles, which means you have 3 (4 if you include Alex Hunt) options for two roles. Or, you just revert to the system that saw us become one of the best, most free-scoring teams in the division last season, allow Bannan freedom from a traditional midfield spot, and allow roles for the likes of FDB, Vaulks & Adeniran in a midfield trio. 

 

Alternatively, if Heneghan & Ihiekwe continue to struggle with the demands of playing out from the back, a switch to a 4-3-1-2 might not be such a bad idea, and it's a system that would absolutely be able to get Bannan, Windass, Smith & Gregory all in the same side, and all in their most effective positions.

 

In that system, we could line-up something like:

 

---------------------Stockdale----------------------

Hunt------Heneghan--Ihiekwe-----Johnson

------------------------Vaulks*------------------------

-------------Byers**-----------Bannan***--------

----------------------Windass------------------------

----------Gregory------------Smith--------------

 

*Adeniran

** Bakinson

*** Dele-Bashiru

[trotter]

Stockdale 5 awful distribution. Put defence under pressure. 

 

Palmer 7

Henegan 3 on the floor, 8 in the air so call it a six. 

Ikwi 7

 

Johnson 4

FDB 4

Bannan 4

Vaulks 4

Hunt 5

 

Paterson 4

Windass 8

 

Gregory 7

Byers 7

Bakinson 7

James 7

Sow 7

[Holmowl]

2 minutes ago, trotter said:

Stockdale 5 awful distribution. Put defence under pressure. 

 

Palmer 7

Henegan 3 on the floor, 8 in the air so call it a six. 

Ikwi 7

 

Johnson 4

FDB 4

Bannan 4

Vaulks 4

Hunt 5

 

Paterson 4

Windass 8

 

Gregory 7

Byers 7

Bakinson 7

James 7

Sow 7

(3+8) / 2 = 5.5

 

[Holmowl]

28 minutes ago, frastheowl said:

 

Essentially yeah, but they are both contributing to much less effective attacking output.

 

The issues stem from Bannan's much higher position.

 

No.10's in any system, whether it be 3-4-1-2, or 4-2-3-1, 4-3-1-2 or any other variation, rely on others getting the ball to them in advanced positions. And how that system gets the ball to them, can be varied also? But, essentially, you need either midfielders in a double pivot behind the No.10 to be ball-players and are adept in collecting the ball from deep and passing through the thirds to connect the No.10... Or, you have defenders who can do exactly that. Or, in an ideal world, both!

 

Against Portsmouth, we looked perhaps relatively our most potent, from an attacking point of view (although drastically less than last season), because we had Byers in that double pivot, who did manage to achieve that link-up to a point. However, since then, Moore has persisted with Vaulks and Dele-Bashiru. Vaulks isn't a ball-player, in any sense of the word, and struggled to link things last week and this. And Dele-Bashiru, for as good as he was in the 1st game (and towards the end of the 2nd, ironically in the No.10 position), isn't a player who'll link up play. It's not his game to drop deep and collect the ball...he's a ball carrier...a passer of the ball, he is not.

 

The issues in the back line are there for all to see. Ihiekwe and Heneghan have both come from teams that made very few passes into midfield, and have been used to playing with a safety first approach in mind. That's not their fault...but either we need to show patience with them, to become comfortable with the expectations we demand from them, or start to seriously question the recruitment of two of our key defenders.

 

Last season, Bannan was given the licence to get forward more, but at no point was his starting position as high as it has been in the 1st 3 games this season. I had a quick look last night, and I might do a thread on it if I get time, and compared Bannan's average touches/90 minutes and key passes/90 minutes over last season and our first 3 games, and the contrast is startling. 

 

For me, if Bannan is to continue in this role, there's only Byers & Bakinson (something I stated on here, after the Portsmouth game) capable to playing in the midfield roles behind him (maybe Alex Hunt)...but then you have to start questioning the recruitment once again. An alternative, would be Windass playing in the No.10 role, and Bannan dropping into the deeper roles, which means you have 3 (4 if you include Alex Hunt) options for two roles. Or, you just revert to the system that saw us become one of the best, most free-scoring teams in the division last season, allow Bannan freedom from a traditional midfield spot, and allow roles for the likes of FDB, Vaulks & Adeniran in a midfield trio. 

 

Alternatively, if Heneghan & Ihiekwe continue to struggle with the demands of playing out from the back, a switch to a 4-3-1-2 might not be such a bad idea, and it's a system that would absolutely be able to get Bannan, Windass, Smith & Gregory all in the same side, and all in their most effective positions.

 

In that system, we could line-up something like:

 

---------------------Stockdale----------------------

Hunt------Heneghan--Ihiekwe-----Johnson

------------------------Vaulks*------------------------

-------------Byers**-----------Bannan***--------

----------------------Windass------------------------

----------Gregory------------Smith--------------

 

*Adeniran

** Bakinson

*** Dele-Bashiru

Bet your teacher never wrote “Must work harder”.

 

Cant see him switching from 352 and not do I want him to. Add this season’s 3 results onto the back of last season’s 352 period and it shows unreal success.

 

I’d like to see those Bannan stats. Certainly where he’s playing doesn’t work for him or the team. It’s very encouraging that we’ve taken 7 from 3 with him barely contributing. Bodes very well. 
 

I too wonder if we might see him plus one behind Windass. Windass was superb in that AM role late on. And I don’t see Windass starting up front once Smith is fit.

 

For the first time I see a bunch of CMs that do allow us to play without Bannan. Though I still feel he’ll find his feet and be one of our most influential players yet again.

[A E Neuman NYowl]

28 minutes ago, frastheowl said:

 

Essentially yeah, but they are both contributing to much less effective attacking output.

 

The issues stem from Bannan's much higher position.

 

No.10's in any system, whether it be 3-4-1-2, or 4-2-3-1, 4-3-1-2 or any other variation, rely on others getting the ball to them in advanced positions. And how that system gets the ball to them, can be varied also? But, essentially, you need either midfielders in a double pivot behind the No.10 to be ball-players and are adept in collecting the ball from deep and passing through the thirds to connect the No.10... Or, you have defenders who can do exactly that. Or, in an ideal world, both!

 

Against Portsmouth, we looked perhaps relatively our most potent, from an attacking point of view (although drastically less than last season), because we had Byers in that double pivot, who did manage to achieve that link-up to a point. However, since then, Moore has persisted with Vaulks and Dele-Bashiru. Vaulks isn't a ball-player, in any sense of the word, and struggled to link things last week and this. And Dele-Bashiru, for as good as he was in the 1st game (and towards the end of the 2nd, ironically in the No.10 position), isn't a player who'll link up play. It's not his game to drop deep and collect the ball...he's a ball carrier...a passer of the ball, he is not.

 

The issues in the back line are there for all to see. Ihiekwe and Heneghan have both come from teams that made very few passes into midfield, and have been used to playing with a safety first approach in mind. That's not their fault...but either we need to show patience with them, to become comfortable with the expectations we demand from them, or start to seriously question the recruitment of two of our key defenders.

 

Last season, Bannan was given the licence to get forward more, but at no point was his starting position as high as it has been in the 1st 3 games this season. I had a quick look last night, and I might do a thread on it if I get time, and compared Bannan's average touches/90 minutes and key passes/90 minutes over last season and our first 3 games, and the contrast is startling. 

 

For me, if Bannan is to continue in this role, there's only Byers & Bakinson (something I stated on here, after the Portsmouth game) capable to playing in the midfield roles behind him (maybe Alex Hunt)...but then you have to start questioning the recruitment once again. An alternative, would be Windass playing in the No.10 role, and Bannan dropping into the deeper roles, which means you have 3 (4 if you include Alex Hunt) options for two roles. Or, you just revert to the system that saw us become one of the best, most free-scoring teams in the division last season, allow Bannan freedom from a traditional midfield spot, and allow roles for the likes of FDB, Vaulks & Adeniran in a midfield trio. 

 

Alternatively, if Heneghan & Ihiekwe continue to struggle with the demands of playing out from the back, a switch to a 4-3-1-2 might not be such a bad idea, and it's a system that would absolutely be able to get Bannan, Windass, Smith & Gregory all in the same side, and all in their most effective positions.

 

In that system, we could line-up something like:

 

---------------------Stockdale----------------------

Hunt------Heneghan--Ihiekwe-----Johnson

------------------------Vaulks*------------------------

-------------Byers**-----------Bannan***--------

----------------------Windass------------------------

----------Gregory------------Smith--------------

 

*Adeniran

** Bakinson

*** Dele-Bashiru

Some great points there, I really agree with what you say about Bannan playing too advanced. The last thing I want to see is Bannan playing deep but he he is playing too advanced now.  Noticed yesterday he wasn't seeing much of the ball and started coming deep and being wasteful with his distribution.

 

Our best football last season was when the midfield were releasing the wing backs. Some of the balls Bannan played for Johnson inside the fullback were top class.

 

Like you think he needs to be a left side attacking midfielder and he will soon be back on song.

[Costello 77]

If ever there was a time for a few heat map comparisons it's now...

[Ethel The Tree]

12 hours ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

Without the game appearing particularly flowery, Charlton never got behind us or upset us. We came on stronger from 60 minutes and they wilted a little. I think we got our ultimate rewards.

 

Stockdale                                                                   7

 

Palmer                                                                        8 mom

Henegan                                                                     7

Ekwe                                                                           7

 

Johnson                                                                       7

FDB                                                                               6

Bannan                                                                         7

Vaulks                                                                           6

Hunt                                                                               7

 

Paterson                                                                        6

Windass                                                                         7     Windass & Blenkinsop share Bums off seat moment !

 

Gregory                                                                           7

Byers                                                                               7

Bakinson                                                                         7     Windass & Blenkinsop share Bums off seat moment !

 

 

Don't know about Josh and Erneeq

But @Tarquin describes the REAL bums off seats moment in another thread   

[pachyderm]

 

FotMob app also gave goal scorer Bakinson a 7.4

 

The rest of the subs anywhere from 6.2 - 6.5

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

43 minutes ago, Ethel The Tree said:

 

Don't know about Josh and Erneeq

But @Tarquin describes the REAL bums off seats moment in another thread   

I Need a little guidance please ?

[Ethel The Tree]

20 minutes ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

I Need a little guidance please ?

 

@Tarquin's "Strange effect of our winner" OP   

[davetherivelinowl]

Have to say I was really worried by how easily we were dominated in the first half. They were finding it easy to pass the ball around and at the same time made it really difficult for us to play out from the back, causing us to launch long balls forward which just came back again. It was like they had more players on the pitch and we had no midfield whatsoever. But a bloke behind me said 'they'll never keep this up in this heat for 90 minutes' and so it proved. Did we improve massively because of the introduction of Byers, Gregory and Bakinson or was it mostly down to them running out of steam? They looked totally spent in the last 10 minutes. Oh the joy of being able to bring on a new, fresh midfield without a drop in quality. If we keep all 6 we can do that in any game.

 

Stockdale 7 That save from the back pass probably rescued this match (not sure whether he was at fault in the first place though)

 

Palmer 8 Once again looked confident and authoritative

Henegan 6 He's a bit slow, can't pass it long and has a mistake in him. Someone behind me was screaming about how useless he is. Useless at some things but terrific at winning his aerial duels

Ihiekwe 7 Barely noticed him. Steadier than Heneghan.

 

Johnson 5 - Too many poor crosses. If he can't cross right, what else is he good at?

FDB 5 If anyone from Blackpool watched that then his price will have gone back down. Very poor. More bad things than good.

Bannan 4 My favourite player but oh dear after a slow start to the season he's just getting worse. It's rare that I give anyone a 4 but he was a liability. His only decent touch was a header (that near post flick) and his best action was waving his arms to get the fans going.

Vaulks 5 What's the point of the centre backs passing to a midfielder whose only thought is to give it them back? Did at least do one or two creative things but was generally slow and barely took part

Hunt 6 OK

 

Paterson 5 You've got to love his capacity to race around chasing the ball but that only works if others join in. Sadly he contributed little else. Again.

Windass 8 MoM Was quiet in the first half (and let Paterson do all the chasing) but still had moments showing he could be a threat. Perhaps he was pacing himself because he came into his own in the second half, running the channels and then bossing the game from the no 10 spot. Didn't expect him to show so much energy late on and also such exquisite passing. His shooting is usually the best thing about his game but it let him down today. Should have scored. Deserved to.

 

Gregory 8 made a massive difference. His ability to win and hold the ball is almost supernatural.

Byers 8 another game changer. Suddenly our defenders had a midfielder they could pass to who would calmly pass forward to another player. Our midfield should be Byers and two others.

Bakinson 7 Looked good again. I suspect he will continue to play a role as an impact sub - he certainly had an impact yesterday

James 7 Not sure about him in the back 3 but I like him. He's very positive and looks to get forward either by carrying the ball or passing forward

Sow 7 Once again had more of an impact than Paterson. I'm glad he's still here.