Monk's done with Rhodes?

[Holmowl]

18 minutes ago, billyblack said:

Nope, nowhere near.

 

They are just better than Rhodes. Although i wouldnt play Reach anywhere near the front. Waste of time. I just think that Windass, Kachunga etc are the least worst options. Kachunga is a winger mind and shouldnt be playing up front either.

 

IMO with our current squad we would be better playing 4411, with Brown or Windass playing behind the striker, which at the moment should be Patterson. Desperately need a decent forward, i doubt with our financial woes we will get anybody good enough though. 3rd favourites for relegation for a reason.

But that’s my point.

 

We have to accept, we play 352. Might not like it, but it’s 352.

 

We therefore have to accept that we’ve to find a front two strike partnership who will score enough goals to keep us up. 
 

I can understand why so many don’t rate Rhodes, especially for the ******** Turpin fee, but with him in the front two, alongside Paterson or Windass, we have a chance of scoring enough goals. With Paterson-Windass, Paterson-Kachunga or Windass-Kachunga I think our chance of scoring enough goals is all but zilch.

[Holmowl]

Just now, Holmowl said:

But that’s my point.

 

We have to accept, we play 352. Might not like it, but it’s 352.

 

We therefore have to accept that we’ve to find a front two strike partnership who will score enough goals to keep us up. 
 

I can understand why so many don’t rate Rhodes, especially for the ******** Turpin fee, but with him in the front two, alongside Paterson or Windass, we have a chance of scoring enough goals. With Paterson-Windass, Paterson-Kachunga or Windass-Kachunga I think our chance of scoring enough goals is all but zilch.

OK swear filter have it your way.

 

Richard Turpin.

[billyblack]

24 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

What has happened is we reached for the stars, put Carlos in charge, nearly got there, but then hit a wall with a hard smash, the senior pro's went sour and we smashed the FFP rules to bits and got busted

So now we're paying for it

We've had to downgrade the squad

We're now in the process of filling the team with literally anyone we can get our hands on - literally anyone - whether they've not played for months since breaking their legs, or  have reputations of being really quite poor and not making the grade, never having played a first team game EVER etc

We are having to do that. We have no choice. We breached FFP (badly)

Because of the actions of the past Monk is having to deal with the consequences (forget whether he's the right man for the job or not for a moment)

So we're buying players along the lines of Gary Taylor-Fletcher and hyping them up to be these exciting young prospects

90% of our players are simply not good enough

That's why fans getting all upset about the manager/tactics etc  are right do so but at the same time mistaken that we can do anything about the quality of the squad

And guess what?  It's gonna get way worse before it gets better

 

Couldnt agree more. I reckon it will take us another 3 years to recover, could be longer with the Covid issue.

 

Heres hoping some of the U23's come to fruition in the next couple of years. We just need to avoid the bottom 3 at season end if we can.

 

Chairman is very quiet these days..... dont seem to hear anything from him theses days....cant wait to see our accounts when they eventually get submitted

[billyblack]

9 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

But that’s my point.

 

We have to accept, we play 352. Might not like it, but it’s 352.

 

We therefore have to accept that we’ve to find a front two strike partnership who will score enough goals to keep us up. 
 

I can understand why so many don’t rate Rhodes, especially for the ******** Turpin fee, but with him in the front two, alongside Paterson or Windass, we have a chance of scoring enough goals. With Paterson-Windass, Paterson-Kachunga or Windass-Kachunga I think our chance of scoring enough goals is all but zilch.

even in a 352, any of those partnerships are better without Rhodes IMO

 

which is dire

[Guest Jack the Hat]

12 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

But that’s my point.

 

We have to accept, we play 352. Might not like it, but it’s 352.

 

We therefore have to accept that we’ve to find a front two strike partnership who will score enough goals to keep us up. 
 

I can understand why so many don’t rate Rhodes, especially for the ******** Turpin fee, but with him in the front two, alongside Paterson or Windass, we have a chance of scoring enough goals. With Paterson-Windass, Paterson-Kachunga or Windass-Kachunga I think our chance of scoring enough goals is all but zilch.

100% correct.

[Guest Jack the Hat]

30 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

What has happened is we reached for the stars, put Carlos in charge, nearly got there, but then hit a wall with a hard smash, the senior pro's went sour and we smashed the FFP rules to bits and got busted

So now we're paying for it

We've had to downgrade the squad

We're now in the process of filling the team with literally anyone we can get our hands on - literally anyone - whether they've not played for months since breaking their legs, or  have reputations of being really quite poor and not making the grade, never having played a first team game EVER etc

We are having to do that. We have no choice. We breached FFP (badly)

Because of the actions of the past Monk is having to deal with the consequences (forget whether he's the right man for the job or not for a moment)

So we're buying players along the lines of Gary Taylor-Fletcher and hyping them up to be these exciting young prospects

90% of our players are simply not good enough

That's why fans getting all upset about the manager/tactics etc  are right do so but at the same time mistaken that we can do anything about the quality of the squad

And guess what?  It's gonna get way worse before it gets better

 

We all know this but what has it got to do with whether or not we play Rhodes up front instead of someone else.  

[matthefish2002]

37 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

What has happened is we reached for the stars, put Carlos in charge, nearly got there, but then hit a wall with a hard smash, the senior pro's went sour and we smashed the FFP rules to bits and got busted

So now we're paying for it

We've had to downgrade the squad

We're now in the process of filling the team with literally anyone we can get our hands on - literally anyone - whether they've not played for months since breaking their legs, or  have reputations of being really quite poor and not making the grade, never having played a first team game EVER etc

We are having to do that. We have no choice. We breached FFP (badly)

Because of the actions of the past Monk is having to deal with the consequences (forget whether he's the right man for the job or not for a moment)

So we're buying players along the lines of Gary Taylor-Fletcher and hyping them up to be these exciting young prospects

90% of our players are simply not good enough

That's why fans getting all upset about the manager/tactics etc  are right do so but at the same time mistaken that we can do anything about the quality of the squad

And guess what?  It's gonna get way worse before it gets better

 

 

I agree with the first part that we gambled big time on going up and have fallen flat on our faces when out failed.
But I dont agree that we are filling our side with anyone we can lay our hands on.
Yes our budget has been massively reduced since the Play Off days but I get the impression a lot of hard work has gone on behind the scenes to make sure we get as much value for our signings as we can get.

Think chances of us staying up this season are 50/50 which are a lot better then I gave us a month ago.
 

[Bulldog]

3 hours ago, billyblack said:

Nothing to do with Rhodes not playing at all.

 

Theres a reason why Rhodes isnt playing, its complicated so bear with me.

 

Hes not good enough.

 

End

And there'll still be a thread next week asking why he hasn't started 

[Hack-Abusi]

19 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

If Rhodes is supposedly such a tremendous finisher with all this potential waiting to explode, why have eight forwards he's been at the club with had a better strike rate than him (although Winnall might have slipped back below him slightly towards the end of last season)? Not one or two, but EIGHT ! That includes Atdhe Nuhiu who some describe as a "donkey" or "pub player" and Fernando Forestieri, Marco Matias and Josh Windass who haven't even been full time strikers. How come they have taken the same paucity of supply and consistently made more of it?  

 

The Rhodes argument can be done to death with some people. He's like marmite. Loads of fans are positive about him, a lot aren't..

 

I am a massive believer of game time though. Just give him a run of 10 games in a row and see where he is. If it isn't working, fine drag him out... but what, 1 hr, then 1 hr, then 5 minutes is absolutely not enough

 

Also based on recent scoring figures (league games from wiki) who are the 8 forwards that have a better strike rate than him out of curiosity?

 

I've got the following (was bored)

Hooper 0.36 (82apps/30goals)

Forestieri 0.31 (128/40)

Fletcher 0.39 (124/36)

Windass 0.25 (4/1}

Jawow 0.23 (112/26)

RHODES 0.17 {68/12)

Nunu 0.16 (244/40)

Mattias 0.15 {60/9)

Wickham 0.15 (13/2)

Winnall 0.13 (36/5)

 

 

 

 

 

[shandypants]

4 hours ago, OwlBiSeeinThi said:

Possibly.

Or 

DC doesn't want Rhodes on the books any longer and Monk is being instructed to build without him.

 

But if he's staying I agree he needs a run of games. The question is can we afford to risk a five game bedding in period when we need the results.

 

Who'd be a manager hey.

This is a point I’ve made in other threads. SWFC is not here to rehabilitate players that have lost their ability; it should be the players that are here to make the club better. Rhodes is shot - he was top quality 7 or 8 years ago but he’s bloody awful now. 

[DJMortimer]

2 minutes ago, Hack-Abusi said:

 

The Rhodes argument can be done to death with some people. He's like marmite. Loads of fans are positive about him, a lot aren't..

 

I am a massive believer of game time though. Just give him a run of 10 games in a row and see where he is. If it isn't working, fine drag him out... but what, 1 hr, then 1 hr, then 5 minutes is absolutely not enough

 

Also based on recent scoring figures (league games from wiki) who are the 8 forwards that have a better strike rate than him out of curiosity?

 

I've got the following (was bored)

Hooper 0.36 (82apps/30goals)

Forestieri 0.31 (128/40)

Fletcher 0.39 (124/36)

Windass 0.25 (4/1}

Jawow 0.23 (112/26)

RHODES 0.17 {68/12)

Nunu 0.16 (244/40)

Mattias 0.15 {60/9)

Wickham 0.15 (13/2)

Winnall 0.13 (36/5)

 

 

You appear to be only using league games, whereas I included all competitions as it seems to me to be fairer not to be filtering stuff out. And I don't believe that really benefits or penalises any of them in particular. I can't even remember if it was calculated by appearances or minutes as it dates back to several threads like this in the past. The latter would seem most representative, especially for the likes of Nuhiu, Rhodes and Joao who were on the bench so often.

 

Anyway, regardless of nit-picking about the specifics of criteria, which I doubt would change much, you've shown without question that 5 in that list have done significantly better and even the ones below him he's only beaten by the most minute of fractions. Not an impressive showing for what is supposed to be his USP. When you factor in that forwards are usually required to do rather more than just score goals (and it should also be noted that Rhodes has precisely 1 assist in his time here) and that these other things cannot be measured by crude statistics, I still think you can make the case that he has been outperformed on the whole by everyone else in that list, apart arguably from Winnall and Wickham. And the latter can point to the injuries which have plagued him relentlessly these last few years. 

 

As for a run in the team, he started the first 12 after he arrived and didn't miss a league contest until the 24th such game. That's half a season's worth. when we were a much better team than what we have now, and in that time he scored... three. 

 

[Mike Hunt]

See where he goes when his contracts up , that will tell the story 

 

Maybe his dad will recommend him to Oldham if he is still there 

[bigdan2003]

Completely understand the theory that he needs a run of games. But the thing is, imo,  Rhodes contributes very little to the rest of the game / team.  He doesn't seem to hold it up, he doesn't really create anything.  So i can understand why he isn't given a run of games to be honest, because we can't afford to carry players at this moment. 

 

I really hope he comes good, but i just can't see it happening now. 

[matthefish2002]

8 minutes ago, hugeowl said:

See where he goes when his contracts up , that will tell the story 

 

Maybe his dad will recommend him to Oldham if he is still there 

 

I think he will retire. 
Get the impression from his body language that his heart not in it anymore and I doubt he needs the money from a year at a lower league club.

[Guest Jack the Hat]

29 minutes ago, shandypants said:

This is a point I’ve made in other threads. SWFC is not here to rehabilitate players that have lost their ability; it should be the players that are here to make the club better. Rhodes is shot - he was top quality 7 or 8 years ago but he’s bloody awful now. 

Yes and it was a mute point then. What we are saying is give him a run in the team because that would hopefully produce more goals than giving other players a run. 
We are not doing him a favour. In the same way it is pointless to compare him to players that are no longer here. Or to managers long gone. Given we used to have , I think, 8 strikers it was fair he didn’t play. Now he is the only one so he should play if you removed preconceived views. Your rehabilitation point is not as good as you seem to think it is. 
If you want to say play Kachunga because you think he will score more than Rhodes then great that is relevant. Little else you say on the topic is.

[OwlBiSeeinThi]

I think whatever his issue is it started before he came here. Maybe he was a basket case before he stepped through the door. The fact he lacked confidence to take a pen against udders, a free shot on goal, speaks volumes for me.

But if that is the case I wonder if the club thought to send him to a sports psychologist to get his head back in the right place and protect their 8m pound investment.

 

I guess we'll never know.

[TheGaffer]

29 minutes ago, bigdan2003 said:

Completely understand the theory that he needs a run of games. But the thing is, imo,  Rhodes contributes very little to the rest of the game / team.  He doesn't seem to hold it up, he doesn't really create anything.  So i can understand why he isn't given a run of games to be honest, because we can't afford to carry players at this moment. 

 

I really hope he comes good, but i just can't see it happening now. 

Don't agree with the contributions part of this. Re watch the Cardiff game. The amount of "easy" free kicks he wins in the opposites half was crucial to our management of the game. It also in turn created lots more opportunities for balls into the box which he thrives off

[DJMortimer]

17 minutes ago, Jack the Hat said:

If you want to say play Kachunga because you think he will score more than Rhodes then great that is relevant. Little else you say on the topic is.

 

The important things is the option that helps the team get the best outcome, whatever that is, not scoring records for individuals. 

 

[jomaco]

 I wish he'd just stuck with rhodes and windass tbh, either penney or reach on left

 

 

[Guest Jack the Hat]

2 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

The important things is the option that helps the team get the best outcome, whatever that is, not scoring records for individuals. 

 

SERIOUSLY? We aren’t scoring goals. At some point we have to score goals. Scoring goals gets the best outcome for the team. None of our players have scored in 4 games. We have loads of players that run around and don’t score. The disasterous signing that is Jordan Rhodes is currently a better option than the others currently proving they can’t score. I don’t really care how well the players get on and how high morale is and how tidy the dressing room is. I want to see the ball in the back of that Soddin onion bag and points on the board.