Guest LondonOwl313 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, bladeshater said: And what happens if he doesn't start winning straight away if remember right Paul Cooke started very slow at start He won the league at Wigan in his first season so that kind of slow start will do for me I'm not saying we should give a manager no time to get results, but that if results aren't forthcoming we should have no hesitancy in replacing them. In Monk's case he's had 40 games, practically a full season. Thats more than enough time to assess whether its going in the right direction and it just isn't, so his time is up. Realistically you only get half a season really because otherwise changes have to be made. Imagine if Monk's last 23 games had been his first 23 games and we were cut adrift at the bottom of the table staring relegation in the face. The club would have to make a change to try and get a bounce going given they'd want to stay up. So I'm not saying assess after 5 or 10 games, but 20-25 games you get a good feel for how good a job they're doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanharper Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Owls Loyal said: This debate to me is somewhat semantic The fact is that since Xmas Monk had results and performances that were excruciatingly poor. At virtually every club in the league he would have been fired. But the question I keep asking Monks' few supporters is what single piece of evidence do you have to suggest that Monk is the man to improve the fortunes of SWFC? I keep asking this question but I never get a reply. You never will. Maybe a bunch of excuses and "he can't be that bad if he got us to third at Christmas", but I'm convinced that the vast majority of those backing him haven't actually been to many games because the performances since Christmas were largely even worse than the results. (I'll get called an uberfan now because that's all they've got) . Edited July 29, 2020 by alanharper typo 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls Loyal Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 Agree 100% with LondonOwl313 and Alan Harper. I genuinely want to see one piece of evidence from what we have seen on the pitch to suggest that Monk is the man. In my view it has been complete rubbish under Monk. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam_stallion Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, Owls Loyal said: Agree 100% with LondonOwl313 and Alan Harper. I genuinely want to see one piece of evidence from what we have seen on the pitch to suggest that Monk is the man. In my view it has been complete rubbish under Monk. No, its been even worse than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 20 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said: He won the league at Wigan in his first season so that kind of slow start will do for me I'm not saying we should give a manager no time to get results, but that if results aren't forthcoming we should have no hesitancy in replacing them. In Monk's case he's had 40 games, practically a full season. Thats more than enough time to assess whether its going in the right direction and it just isn't, so his time is up. Realistically you only get half a season really because otherwise changes have to be made. Imagine if Monk's last 23 games had been his first 23 games and we were cut adrift at the bottom of the table staring relegation in the face. The club would have to make a change to try and get a bounce going given they'd want to stay up. So I'm not saying assess after 5 or 10 games, but 20-25 games you get a good feel for how good a job they're doing Everyone talks about monk having a Preseason to work with the players, he had international breaks every 6 weeks of 2 weeks to work with the team, he had training in none match days to work with the team, he had a mini preseason when the team reported back from Co-Vid and managed to only win 2 games in 9 picking up just 8 points out of 27. For me he is the wrong man in charge, he had worked with the same players other manager have and got less out of them, instead calling them bad apples then put all his faith in two players that didn't want to sign a contract to stay. We need someone who is going to bring the club together and build for the future and under Monk all I see is in 5-10 games of the new season, we will be once again in the bottom 6 and it will be everyone else fault other than the bloke picking the team, formation and tactics each game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 5 hours ago, TrickyTrev said: In fairness if you compare the time Steve Bruce was at the club with the equivalent time Monk was here (Bruce was at the club 18 League games compared with Monk’s first 18 League games) Monk actually outperformed Bruce and didn’t have the luxury of having his own staff unlike Bruce. This suggests to me that the problem is a group of players who try hard for a new manager but then revert to not giving a throw after the “honeymoon” period. If you look back the same thing happened with Luhukay and also during Bullen’s last caretaker spell in charge. As such we have a real chance this preseason to freshen things up and get a group of players together who have a better attitude and I don’t think changing manager right now would help that process as a new manager coming in would have to start again from scratch with the season just over a month away. Also looking at some of the players he took to Leeds, I’d like to see what Monk can do given a crack at recruitment at Wednesday. Alternatively you could say Bruce 18 games and Monks 18 games they did have the same players but at that point Monk stopped playing Westwood, Reach, Hutchinson, Lees, Fessi etc and the team started to slide, Lees and Reach where brought back in later but by that point the team already had a losing mentality. We have gone from a top half team to a bottom 6 team in 4 months of Monk management, we cannot defend, we cannot score, there is no leadership in the team, players don't know their roles and we are getting taken apart by some very average teams. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, room0035 said: Alternatively you could say Bruce 18 games and Monks 18 games they did have the same players but at that point Monk stopped playing Westwood, Reach, Hutchinson, Lees, Fessi etc and the team started to slide, Lees and Reach where brought back in later but by that point the team already had a losing mentality. We have gone from a top half team to a bottom 6 team in 4 months of Monk management, we cannot defend, we cannot score, there is no leadership in the team, players don't know their roles and we are getting taken apart by some very average teams. In Monk’s defence the squad was weaker this year. Under Bruce we had Hector, Lazaar, Aarons, Boyd, Matias, Hooper, Onomah (plus Abdi and Jones but we’ll ignore them). Monk had Luongo, Harris, Borner, Murphy, Da Cruz, Windass and Wickham in addition. Matias and Boyd did relatively well for Bruce, played much better in their last 6 months than they had in the prior 2-3 years before that. Hector is better than Borner. Hooper and Lazaar were both class players but rarely played, bit like Wickham this year. There’s only really Murphy being better than Aarons that’s an upgrade. FF looked a bit out of sorts under both but I’d have backed Bruce to have got something out of him this year because he’s a good man manager. Westwood and Hutchinson are obviously key to it as the defence always falls apart without them Edited July 29, 2020 by LondonOwl313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poite Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 If we knew what our future held it would be reasonable to suggest going for Paul Cook. Unfortunately we have no idea so there will be far better alternatives for a manager like him elsewhere, especially with his record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls Loyal Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 19 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said: No they wouldn’t, not as long as he wins games. If we get a manager who isn’t good enough to get results we should keep replacing them until we can find one who’s capable of winning. Beyond me why we have some fans who are so accepting of mediocrity I so so agree with LoindonOwl313 who absolutely nais it in my view I too wonder why some fans are so accepting of the mediocrity and poor performance that is Monk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrbluesky Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 GET COOK-IN!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Of The Roasters Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 What makes anyone think Paul Cook would want to come here? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Roy Of The Roasters said: What makes anyone think Paul Cook would want to come here? We don't but he is a lot more realistic than Eddie Howe and Mauricio Pochettino that I have seen mentioned on Owlstalk. If we can get the off field stuff on a more even keel then I think Paul Cook would come. Edited July 30, 2020 by matthefish2002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladeshater Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 May as well close the thread monk is the chairman's choice if he was going change that I think he would done it straight after the last game and he certainly wouldn't be allowing him to bring in his recruit's for the coming campaign. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Owls Loyal said: I too wonder why some fans are so accepting of the mediocrity and poor performance that is Monk. Apart from a bit of ineffectual grumbling on here, what are you doing that is so different from these supposedly 'inferior' fans who are not planning kidnapping Att Chansiri or something until they get what they want? Such pointless chest beating. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 dont know if monk will be successful of making us competitive but i do like that he realises that the squad needs a major overall and he's set about trying to get rid of some of them .....that some are fans favourites does him no favours . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Of The Roasters Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 55 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said: We don't but he is a lot more realistic than Eddie Howe and Mauricio Pochettino that I have seen mentioned on Owlstalk. If we can get the off field stuff on a more even keel then I think Paul Cook would come. Fair enough, but that pretty much rules him out right at the moment. At least with Brizzie he'll know he'll be managing a Championship side next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARMYARMY2010 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Just now, Roy Of The Roasters said: Fair enough, but that pretty much rules him out right at the moment. At least with Brizzie he'll know he'll be managing a Championship side next season. So does Monk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devonstrix Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Not sure about that Barmy. I thought Monk would be sacked if we were staying in the Championship. For me, the reason he is still here is because DC doesn’t know what league we are in next season. If we are in L1 he will probably give him a chance. If we stay in the Championship, he will be gone - he has to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARMYARMY2010 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Devonstrix said: Not sure about that Barmy. I thought Monk would be sacked if we were staying in the Championship. For me, the reason he is still here is because DC doesn’t know what league we are in next season. If we are in L1 he will probably give him a chance. If we stay in the Championship, he will be gone - he has to be. Does anybody really, I mean really believe we'll be in League One next season ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third man Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, BARMYARMY2010 said: Does anybody really, I mean really believe we'll be in League One next season ? Not if they look at it with common sense and logic, but there is the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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