Flat Owl Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 minute ago, ANDY said: Same at preston... Their policing is pro-active SYP are re-active Indeed. Its not as if anything has substantially changed in terms of the layout of the ground or its surroundings since 1966....and has since been used with a big home and away crowd e.g the Arsenal game 3 years ago that you would have thought the police have had reasonable time to formulate and implement a reasonably competent 'Matchday Plan' by now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only way is S6 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Agree totally with the sentiments of the OP. The ironic thing about it is, there were still at least 10 SYP officers, before the game, around that forecourt area on Saturday, to make sure it wasn't used. So probably as many as would have been there if our turnstiles were open. It's all just a bit silly. I walked down LL from Burger King to have a nosey. No reason whatsoever for us not to go in that way. Loads of room & space, Barnsley fans wandering about in their bit. All fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, asteener1867 said: I think most understood the point..maybe yer a bit slow...Its sometimes difficult to dumb it down Torres... And..were there 1000's of Ticketless fans?...I dunno where thats ever been proven No. There weren’t. Proven to be part of SYPs narrative to discredit the victims and their families. Some people will never accept the truth as it doesn’t fit their personal narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys Salopettes Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Tudders said: SYP sought advice and a review from a leading football match safety planner. Since receiving the findings/advice from the expert, they had to adhere to what the expert said. If they didn’t adhere to it and anything went wrong, they’d no doubt be up for the high jump. Nothing to do with not being able to Police derbies. Again i believe its the long shadow of the disaster which made SYP go to the lengths of contacting an expert on these matters. Had they been another force I don’t think they would have done so. Have they adhered to what the expert (the name of the principal author and his/her experience and qualifications are not stated) of said? Because the top of Page 15 states ... “Before further analysis and consideration takes place for this option, a proposal to SWFC and an agreement to trial the new form of egress would be needed.” I’m far from convinced this has occurred. From my experiences as an away fan at Bramall Lane, they haven’t policed it at all well in respect of away fans. I agree with your 2nd paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aingarth Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, ANDY said: I know because i have witnessed both forces Preston match day police are friendly, they treat you like a human being SYP treat every fan like they're a hooligan I have to agree with this. I am in my 70 but the police at matches treat me and others of my age as we are all criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mighty wednesday Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hirstys Salopettes said: Have they adhered to what the expert (the name of the principal author and his/her experience and qualifications are not stated) of said? Because the top of Page 15 states ... “Before further analysis and consideration takes place for this option, a proposal to SWFC and an agreement to trial the new form of egress would be needed.” I’m far from convinced this has occurred. From my experiences as an away fan at Bramall Lane, they haven’t policed it at all well in respect of away fans. I agree with your 2nd paragraph. From the club statement it seems that we definitely don't agree. It remains to be seen if we were even consulted. If this is the case you would think that SYP are on shaky ground relying on the report to justify this action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanningtonowl Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Sham67 said: Wouldn't it be better to disband SYP and let a competent force do the local policing. Probably need to sack everyone from Inspector level up, hopefully with pension rights removed. Love to know your rationale for this. Please do explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debs11boys Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Albertowl said: Best post i have read on here....EVER Agreed totally, bang on the nose post. Wake up SYP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys Salopettes Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 35 minutes ago, Tudders said: SYP sought advice and a review from a leading football match safety planner. Since receiving the findings/advice from the expert, they had to adhere to what the expert said. If they didn’t adhere to it and anything went wrong, they’d no doubt be up for the high jump. Nothing to do with not being able to Police derbies. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jun/14/south-yorkshire-police-changes-approach-football-criticism 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdan2003 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) I’d like to know how much public money they’ve spent on this. Edited August 12, 2019 by bigdan2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys Salopettes Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Response to Sheffield Wednesday club statement Date published: 09 August 2019 14:46 Dated: 09 August 2019 15:34:39 Having made considerable effort pulling together plans to meet deficiencies in the club’s safety arrangements, it is disappointing they should seek to criticise our approach. The club were provided with a copy of the Manchester Metropolitan University report on 27 June, but the initial SAG, on 17 July arranged so the concerns raised in the report could addressed ahead of the new season, was cancelled because the club would not attend. At the rearranged SAG on 25 July, the club’s response was found to be inadequate, leading the SAG to issue the prohibition notice. SYP only received a written response and proposals on 6 August, which were again found to be inadequate by the SAG. Viable proposals were sent to SYP, via the SAG, at 10am on Friday 9 August 2019. The club statement, that the measures in place for Saturday’s games are outside of their control, is factually incorrect and misleading, as they hold the responsibility for crowd safety, entrance and egress to the stadium, and the traffic management around the venue. While the match tomorrow will go ahead, there is clearly further work to be done due to various issues raised as a result of this process. The safety of the public has to remain our top priority. === Does the MMU report actually state ‘deficiencies in the club’s safety arrangements’? SWFC do not hold responsibility for traffic management on a public highway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleo Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 25 minutes ago, Tudders said: I agree. It wouldn’t be different for any other Championship ground. The difference is SYP asked for the report. No other forces have. Why was it asked for? Because of the extra scrutiny of the disaster. Not only any other Championship ground but most grounds in the country. Widen the thinking and include large events like Glastonbury, Rock concerts in Hyde Park, New Years Eve celebrations on the banks of the Thames, the Old Firm Derby etc etc. and you have to ask how can other Forces manage these large crowds and SYP can't manage 500 Luton fans ? It seems as though SYP lack confidence in their own judgement and decision making. If that's the case then the Senior Officers should be considering their position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highbury Owl Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 We should take a lead from QPR and re-brand Hillsborough for the rest of the season as : SYP LIARS STADIUM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonk Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Tudders said: You say SWFC fans shouldn’t still suffer from it? Totally agree. On the flip side though why should SYP still be judged from something that happened 30 years ago? The employees are totally different at both SWFC and SYP from the time of the disaster. There were several factors that contributed to the deaths of the innocent 96 supporters RIP. All I can say is that whether it be the SWFC heirarchy at the time, the Police commanders etc I’m sure not one of them went to work that day with the intention of anyone getting injured, never mind killed. If it happened, the alleged changing of statements was wrong and illegal.Those responsible should face repercussions. It was 30 years ago and as I said, the club and SYP have totally different personnel today. So why should either SWFC or SYP continue to be vilified? What you say about it being wrong that SWFC are still suffering, should be the same for SYP also. The world has changed immeasurably from 30 years ago. Not only in Health and Safety, but in policing and everything else. The fall out of this being huge amounts of red tape. Is it over zealous? Yes I believe it is. But it’s because the powers that be are wanting to avoid a repeat of the disaster. If it happened???? It’s very well documented that statements were changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerwyldesmullet Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 hours ago, asteener1867 said: Yep..I know its another one.... SYP, in my opinion..are desperate for the name Hillsborough to disappear offa the face of the earth. When you used to type it into google..You either got Our ground..or the castle in Northern ireland... ...Type it in now It reminds them of the shambles they made in the policing of that game in 1989....It reminds them that they altered statements in the aftermath of that disaster...and were quite willing to go along with lies that were peddled in The Sun..... It reminds them that they were culpable..it reminds them that their name will forever be associated with it.. Do SYP honestly think that Wednesday changing grounds...will expunge that? Its about time they owned it...and left Wednesday fans the f.ook alone..Cos we had sod all to do with it..bar Owls fans helping the injured in their roles at Sheffield hospitals...and Wednesday fans offering drinks and phone calls in the environs of Hillsborough,,,,Vere rd etc None of it was the doing of Wednesday fans...It simply happened at our ground... I no longer go to Hillsborough ashamed...I'm saddened that so many lost their lives over a football game..and sometimes I look over at the Leppings lane and think about... The only thing I had to do with it was to go into work at the Hallamshire...The same afternoon..as a porter...The wife came with me..as a Nursing Sister..and we all donated our wages to the bereaved families... Why in the name of f.ook should any Sheffield Wednesday fan still suffer from it? Cos thats what its all about now.. A thin veneer over what actually happened...A "look at us" attitude from the powers that be...Its unfair...its transparent...and its cowardly. Hillsborough these days..is not unsafe..If it was how come the powers that be let nigh on 40'000 in against Wycombe? Was I unsafe in that crowd..If so,,,who is answerable for that..? Its absolute b llx! Brilliant post which I hope finds its way onto Liverpool forums. Said it before and got negged for saying that I was there on that fateful day and my abiding memory is being on the pitch as fans attempted to resuscitate the dying while police stood by in a line programmed like zombies to stop a possible fight. They were given the wrong orders then and they were given the wrong orders when they were told to change their statements. I didn’t need an enquiry to know that, a mate of mine in the force told me about it at the time. Of course there were other contributory factors to the disaster than just that, the fans without tickets who tried to rush the gate know who they are and will have to live with what they did. Likewise, the Club’s short sightedness, it’s bewildered stewards and the fences that proved to be well intentioned death traps. But, ultimately SYP were being paid to supervise that event not Wednesdayites and yet we are the ones that are being constantly messed around and treated like we are some kind of dangerous breed that need to be kept 50 yards distant from any away fans no matter how pitiful their following ...... when down south one column of seats is enough separation for a play off final at Wembley. Bollix. TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN - IT WASN’T OUR FAULT!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SettleForADraw Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, torres said: Yes, of course it’s been proved. Who could think that Liverpool fans had absolutely anything to do with it. The little angels Do your research, numpty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helmut_rooster Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 3 hours ago, zzmdu said: SYPhilis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ka58 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, S36 OWL said: Its supports the argument SYP are incompetent and not fit for purpose. Ok possibly - but does it fit the argument that they are victimising the club because of the Hillsboro disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ka58 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Rogerwyldesmullet said: Brilliant post which I hope finds its way onto Liverpool forums. Said it before and got negged for saying that I was there on that fateful day and my abiding memory is being on the pitch as fans attempted to resuscitate the dying while police stood by in a line programmed like zombies to stop a possible fight. They were given the wrong orders then and they were given the wrong orders when they were told to change their statements. I didn’t need an enquiry to know that, a mate of mine in the force told me about it at the time. Of course there were other contributory factors to the disaster than just that, the fans without tickets who tried to rush the gate know who they are and will have to live with what they did. Likewise, the Club’s short sightedness, it’s bewildered stewards and the fences that proved to be well intentioned death traps. But, ultimately SYP were being paid to supervise that event not Wednesdayites and yet we are the ones that are being constantly messed around and treated like we are some kind of dangerous breed that need to be kept 50 yards distant from any away fans no matter how pitiful their following ...... when down south one column of seats is enough separation for a play off final at Wembley. Bollix. TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN - IT WASN’T OUR FAULT!!!!! This isn’t true of course. the disaster was in 1989. have a look at any number of videos over the last 30 years and that level of segregation wasn’t happening - so you’re basing the assumption over very recent activity by syp and backfitting it to some kind of persecution by syp. ill give you an easy youtube example - search for the Sheffield derby at Hillsboro in 1991/1992- 3 years after the disaster - and the level of segregation there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aingarth Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Look. SYP were seriously criticised by supporters and both clubs for the way they handled the Sheffield Derby this year. Their response/defence was to commission this report in which SWFC was not invited to be involved. The report points the finger back at the club thus getting SYP off the hook. Having read the full report, if applied to most PL and Championship clubs it would result in similar or more severe recommendations. But it has only ever been applied to Hillsborough and it is attempting via “clever analysis” to solve a problem which has in practice never been a problem. In 64 years attending Hillsborough, always entering at Leppings Lane, I cannot ever recall an issue with the “egress” from Leppings Lane. Problems with access on the day of the disaster- yes. Problems with young Turks sparring-yes,which is partly why the police are there. But application of a solution to what was a different problem on the day and failing to analyse the consequences? They have done us over and got the Blade supporting people at SCC to issue a prohibition order. No victimisation and nothing to do with 1989, don’t buy that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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