Tudders Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 There are two stains. One on SWFC and one on SYP. I think if any name needs changing it should be ‘SYP’. Just the mention of those three letters provokes an inner response from anyone hearing them. A lot of which is rooted from 30 years ago-The Hillsborough Disaster, Orgreave etc There will have been people at fault from all groups involved, be them employees of SWFC, some of the supporters at the ground, the miners at Orgreave, Police Officers etc A line needs drawing under those unfortunate events from such a long time ago, but until the name of the force is changed, and the name of the ground, both will forever be linked to the disaster and extra scrutiny-sometimes maybe unnecessary and unfair- will be the result until those names change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mighty wednesday Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, ka58 said: How is it naive? What makes you think it is the case? also how does Rotherham scandal support the argument that they have it in for Wednesday / hillsborough stadium? it supports the "not fit for purpose" theory though I think. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudders Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 minute ago, ANDY said: The point is that their level of incompetence stretches back to the miners strike, and still continues to date.. Out of interest what incompetence continues to this day? Theres still a huge amount of bad feeling about from those connected to the Miners at Orgreave. They’ve grown up with a deep rooted hatred of SYP instilled from their forefathers. I think a lot of that clouds the judgement of SYP today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Tudders said: There are two stains. One on SWFC and one on SYP. I think if any name needs changing it should be ‘SYP’. Just the mention of those three letters provokes an inner response from anyone hearing them. A lot of which is rooted from 30 years ago-The Hillsborough Disaster, Orgreave etc There will have been people at fault from all groups involved, be them employees of SWFC, some of the supporters at the ground, the miners at Orgreave, Police Officers etc A line needs drawing under those unfortunate events from such a long time ago, but until the name of the force is changed, and the name of the ground, both will forever be linked to the disaster and extra scrutiny-sometimes maybe unnecessary and unfair- will be the result until those names change. Why change the name of the ground Tudders...Its running away from what happened. The sad fact is 96 Liverpool fans died there...Do you just wipe that away? Wednesday fans can go there and maybe remember...Liverpool fans can remember..In fact it ought to be remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys Salopettes Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 The Manchester Metropolitan University report states on Page 13 ... “From this both home and away fans are seen “mixing” at a vital part in the egress system. Along with fans moving and flowing in a number of directions, whether towards the tram network or towards the away coach area, a number of fans remain static waiting for friends/family or standing in small groups. Also apparent is the number of police resources needed to monitor the crowd and minimise any disorder or incidents. The number required during the aforementioned derby fixture would also see a large increase of necessary police resources.” How is this any different to most other championship grounds? I’m struggling to think of grounds where there is potential for mixing and confrontation with home fans. The only one that immediately springs to mind is millwall, which incidentally tends to enforce a hold back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mighty wednesday Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Tudders said: There are two stains. One on SWFC and one on SYP. I think if any name needs changing it should be ‘SYP’. Just the mention of those three letters provokes an inner response from anyone hearing them. A lot of which is rooted from 30 years ago-The Hillsborough Disaster, Orgreave etc There will have been people at fault from all groups involved, be them employees of SWFC, some of the supporters at the ground, the miners at Orgreave, Police Officers etc A line needs drawing under those unfortunate events from such a long time ago, but until the name of the force is changed, and the name of the ground, both will forever be linked to the disaster and extra scrutiny-sometimes maybe unnecessary and unfair- will be the result until those names change. It would still be like Prince/TAFKAP. The ground formerly known as Hillsborough where the disaster occurred. The Police Force formerly known as SYPD that brought you Orgreave, Hillsborough disaster and the Rotherham scandal. Anyone that wanted to prolong it eg BBC and press would always refer to the former names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDY Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tudders said: Out of interest what incompetence continues to this day? The policing of every home match. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudders Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, Hirstys Salopettes said: Villa brought 4,630 fans to S6 in April. We’re there reported crowd safety issues on the Leppings Lane forecourt? Thought not. Conclusion: SYP unable to police local derbies at Hillsborough, even though there was less away support than at other league games. SYP sought advice and a review from a leading football match safety planner. Since receiving the findings/advice from the expert, they had to adhere to what the expert said. If they didn’t adhere to it and anything went wrong, they’d no doubt be up for the high jump. Nothing to do with not being able to Police derbies. Again i believe its the long shadow of the disaster which made SYP go to the lengths of contacting an expert on these matters. Had they been another force I don’t think they would have done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudders Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Just now, ANDY said: The policing of every home match. Go on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudders Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, the mighty wednesday said: It would still be like Prince/TAFKAP. The ground formerly known as Hillsborough where the disaster occurred. The Police Force formerly known as SYPD that brought you Orgreave, Hillsborough disaster and the Rotherham scandal. Anyone that wanted to prolong it eg BBC and press would always refer to the former names. I agree. I think it needs a ground move and an amalgamation of Police Forces to create a Yorkshire Force to escape being judged on incidents of yesteryear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mus Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Away at Stoke the police were organised, efficient and friendly, a million miles away from SYP, who I feel have a chip on their shoulder because of all the previous failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudders Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hirstys Salopettes said: The Manchester Metropolitan University report states on Page 13 ... “From this both home and away fans are seen “mixing” at a vital part in the egress system. Along with fans moving and flowing in a number of directions, whether towards the tram network or towards the away coach area, a number of fans remain static waiting for friends/family or standing in small groups. Also apparent is the number of police resources needed to monitor the crowd and minimise any disorder or incidents. The number required during the aforementioned derby fixture would also see a large increase of necessary police resources.” How is this any different to most other championship grounds? I’m struggling to think of grounds where there is potential for mixing and confrontation with home fans. The only one that immediately springs to mind is millwall, which incidentally tends to enforce a hold back. I agree. It wouldn’t be different for any other Championship ground. The difference is SYP asked for the report. No other forces have. Why was it asked for? Because of the extra scrutiny of the disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flat Owl Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Dear SYP AND SAG, Does the ground comply with the safety at football stadia regulations, the Taylor report and later amendments? If yes then great and police it competently. If no then close the bit(s) that don't comply until it does comply. Dont make it up as you go along because you don't know what your doing or you are looking to absolve yourselves of blame if something happens due to incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davetherave Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Mus said: Away at Stoke the police were organised, efficient and friendly, a million miles away from SYP, who I feel have a chip on their shoulder because of all the previous failures. You need at least half a brain to be friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudders Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Mus said: Away at Stoke the police were organised, efficient and friendly, a million miles away from SYP, who I feel have a chip on their shoulder because of all the previous failures. Why would they have a ‘chip on their shoulders from previous failures’ when a lot of them were still at school when the disaster and Orgreave happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDY Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mus said: Away at Stoke the police were organised, efficient and friendly, a million miles away from SYP, who I feel have a chip on their shoulder because of all the previous failures. Just now, Davetherave said: You need at least half a brain to be friendly. Same at preston... Their policing is pro-active SYP are re-active Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tudders Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, ANDY said: Same at preston... Their policing is pro-active SYP are re-active How do you know this? What do you mean by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDY Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 I know because i have witnessed both forces Preston match day police are friendly, they treat you like a human being SYP treat every fan like they're a hooligan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mighty wednesday Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Tudders said: Why would they have a ‘chip on their shoulders from previous failures’ when a lot of them were still at school when the disaster and Orgreave happened? Possibly the same reason you think that the people of S Yorks resent SYP. A lot of them heard it from people that were there at the time. It will have been passed down like folklore from one generation of coppers to the next lot. Edited August 12, 2019 by the mighty wednesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 25 minutes ago, ka58 said: How is it naive? What makes you think it is the case? also how does Rotherham scandal support the argument that they have it in for Wednesday / hillsborough stadium? Its supports the argument SYP are incompetent and not fit for purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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