Birmingham immediate 9 point deduction..does it affect us?

[Beauchief Owl]

12 hours ago, asteener1867 said:

The clubs..Birmingham, villa..us...

We MUST have known the facts straight up..We must have known the penalties involved

 

The penalties ought to be made crystal clear before the start of the season. Who actually predicted their nine point deduction. Some thought twelve others thought fine or transfer embargo. It is only in the last week points deductions have been talked of regarding us. 

I do agree, however, that DC ought to have been more responsible re spending.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Beauchief Owl

[marconi]

Looking at Birmingham's remaining fixtures, it wouldn't surprise me if they were relegated. 

[Sham67]

14 hours ago, Great Big Galaa said:

 

?

 

I find your ridiculous over estimation of the fees we've paid for Reach and JVA amusing.

[Jim]

18 minutes ago, Sham67 said:

 

I find your ridiculous over estimation of the fees we've paid for Reach and JVA amusing.

 

OK. I posted that I didn't think we'd paid as much for JVA as had been suggested. As for the Reach fee there's been a lot of posts on here over the last couple of years that Middlesborough had our pants down with both his fee and Rhodes' fee. They may have done, I don't know? You probably do?

 

The basis of my post was that I don't think Rhodes apart, we've spaffed as much on fees as a lot think but our P&S issues probably stem from our wage bill but that's my take on it. I'd love to hear yours 

[S36 OWL]

Get rid of the parachute payments and all this overspending will stop.

[Quist]

18 hours ago, asteener1867 said:

If any other club gets a points deduction...It has to be this season...otherwise..How have Birmingham been punished?

They haven't..bar a tad financially

all thats happened to Birmingham is they have been put out of sight of promotion, and are pretty much safe from relegation.

Derby Villa and ourselves should get likewise punishment , shouldn't we?

In fact maybe a "lesser" penalty because we didn't ride roughshod over the "Embargo".

another thing the EFL in its supposed "wisdom" has missed, is how this affects the fans...Us for example...funding thier FFP rules by paying more over the gate than any other f.ookin' fans...simply cos THEY won't let DC put more in?

Totally stuck in  the middle aren't we?..As supporters

DC can say...."Well I have to charge this because the EFL won't allow me to subsidise the club as I would wish"

The EFL "Its up to the club how much they charge"

Fans ."Ive only got one brick and don't know who's window to chuck it through...................................

The rules should have been set hard and fast....

X amount of points for breaking the financial limits

XX amount of points for breaking the "Embargo"

In fact..How in the name of f.ook does the "Embargo" work?

Surely the club actually selling the player is "Breaking the Embargo"..but the EFL have no power over "Union Berlin" or whoever?

Its a total dogs breakfast....

 

Villa will be only eligible for assessment with current set of accounts. Thus first time they can be punished is next season.

No more punishments are due in current season, we were under soft embargo until we satisfied EFL our accounts were heading in right direction. 

Derby satisfied EFL last season so no points deduction for them. The speculation is about possible deductions next season and my understanding is a lot more than 3 clubs are close to having embargos imposed. 

If the EFL plan which we followed last summer has been adhered to I suspect that we will be ok, although expenditure will have to be in line with plan. the only thing which could scupper this is a huge fall in income or we do not receive as much as anticipated. The good end of season form could result in some large crowds and maybe even play offs which would do no harm. In addition we had televised cup tie against Chelsea which would have earned good revenue.

[casbahowl]

1 hour ago, Quist said:

Villa will be only eligible for assessment with current set of accounts. Thus first time they can be punished is next season.

No more punishments are due in current season, we were under soft embargo until we satisfied EFL our accounts were heading in right direction. 

Derby satisfied EFL last season so no points deduction for them. The speculation is about possible deductions next season and my understanding is a lot more than 3 clubs are close to having embargos imposed. 

If the EFL plan which we followed last summer has been adhered to I suspect that we will be ok, although expenditure will have to be in line with plan. the only thing which could scupper this is a huge fall in income or we do not receive as much as anticipated. The good end of season form could result in some large crowds and maybe even play offs which would do no harm. In addition we had televised cup tie against Chelsea which would have earned good revenue.

Excellent summary 

[Beauchief Owl]

2 hours ago, Great Big Galaa said:

 

OK. I posted that I didn't think we'd paid as much for JVA as had been suggested. As for the Reach fee there's been a lot of posts on here over the last couple of years that Middlesborough had our pants down with both his fee and Rhodes' fee. They may have done, I don't know? You probably do?

 

The basis of my post was that I don't think Rhodes apart, we've spaffed as much on fees as a lot think but our P&S issues probably stem from our wage bill but that's my take on it. I'd love to hear yours 

Whether we've wasted money on transfer fees or wages is fairly irrelevant, we are where we are because of irresponsible spending. 

[Costello 77]

8 minutes ago, Beauchief Owl said:

Whether we've wasted money on transfer fees or wages is fairly irrelevant, we are where we are because of irresponsible spending. 

Irresponsible spending is wasting money.

[Jim]

14 minutes ago, Beauchief Owl said:

Whether we've wasted money on transfer fees or wages is fairly irrelevant, we are where we are because of irresponsible spending. 

 

Would it be classed as irresponsible spending had we got promoted though? We've been close in two of the last three seasons and could yet go close again this season?

[ohhh Milan]

On 22/03/2019 at 12:15, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

The current system isn't fit for purpose.

 

I understand the drive to prevent reckless overspending, but whilst there remains a massively uneven playing field created by parachute payments, clubs will try to find ways to overcome these stacked odds - a drive which is all the more understandable when you consider that wealthy owners with cash to invest in the clubs they own are being prevented from doing so by the arbitrary figures dreamt up by those in charge of the game. Meanwhile, clubs such as Wolves who stick two fingers up to the regulations and manage to get promoted are untouchable, whilst those who gamble and lose are punished further.

 

The EFL need to go back to the drawing board and come up with a system which doesn't punish ambition backed up by proven resources.

An idea that was touted somewhere was that the EFL keep a bond from the club that covers there over spending. It covers the EFL and the club allowing them to spend if they have the funds available. A club wants to spend 40M on players so be it and another 40M goes to the EFL in a bond as proof the club can sustain the wages and fees its paying out.

[TheEnchanter]

Can't believe so many fans are sticking up for our spending and not selling policy. The club knew they would be under threat from FFP they just didn't know to what extent. Well now we are sweating it out praying we don't get a points deduction because of circumstances that we caused ourselves. Its irrelevent whether its fair or not fair. We shouldn't have horded players like classic cars and actually tried to be a little bit smarter. But according to most fans its nasty evil FFPs fault. 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

10 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said:

Can't believe so many fans are sticking up for our spending and not selling policy. The club knew they would be under threat from FFP they just didn't know to what extent. Well now we are sweating it out praying we don't get a points deduction because of circumstances that we caused ourselves. Its irrelevent whether its fair or not fair. We shouldn't have horded players like classic cars and actually tried to be a little bit smarter. But according to most fans its nasty evil FFPs fault. 

 

It's possible to think both that the club have been reckless and should have paid closer attention to the P&S rules and that the rules themselves are unfit for purpose.

 

That's pretty much my take on the situation, to be honest.

[S36 OWL]

A simple solution to this whole problem is for the FA  to impose a rule stating that EVERY contract offered by a premier league club must say that if / upon relegation the players wage will drop to a maximum of £20k per week. This would stop the need for parachute payments and make the championship a more level playing field. It would also stop the need for championship clubs to put themselves in the financial danger they do now because they wouldnt have to spend beyond their means trying to compete with clubs armed with premier league millions . 

[sMacLean]

If a 6-9 point fine is the only punishment I could see many clubs continuing as they are.

 

Any automatic side would easily win enough to get around that.

[Beauchief Owl]

1 hour ago, Great Big Galaa said:

 

Would it be classed as irresponsible spending had we got promoted though? We've been close in two of the last three seasons and could yet go close again this season?

I call it irresponsible when you collect a squad of about 36 players and refuse to sell hardly anybody because they're like family. Most clubs sell a few players over three years, we've hardly sold any. Plus we've paid top wages for players that have no resale value. We've got millions of pounds in wages wasted on players that have made no meaningful contribution to the side this season. 

[steelowl]

48 minutes ago, Beauchief Owl said:

I call it irresponsible when you collect a squad of about 36 players and refuse to sell hardly anybody because they're like family. Most clubs sell a few players over three years, we've hardly sold any. Plus we've paid top wages for players that have no resale value. We've got millions of pounds in wages wasted on players that have made no meaningful contribution to the side this season. 

 

not just this season 

pretty sure DC himself suggested that selling players wouldn't help - cant think of any reason why, except we won't get all the cash

ie someone else got the logbook

[Sham67]

5 hours ago, Great Big Galaa said:

 

OK. I posted that I didn't think we'd paid as much for JVA as had been suggested. As for the Reach fee there's been a lot of posts on here over the last couple of years that Middlesborough had our pants down with both his fee and Rhodes' fee. They may have done, I don't know? You probably do?

 

The basis of my post was that I don't think Rhodes apart, we've spaffed as much on fees as a lot think but our P&S issues probably stem from our wage bill but that's my take on it. I'd love to hear yours 

 

Steve Gibson thinks DC had his pants down.  And I completely agree with your point regarding wages.

[daveyboy66]

2 hours ago, TheEnchanter said:

Can't believe so many fans are sticking up for our spending and not selling policy. The club knew they would be under threat from FFP they just didn't know to what extent. Well now we are sweating it out praying we don't get a points deduction because of circumstances that we caused ourselves. Its irrelevent whether its fair or not fair. We shouldn't have horded players like classic cars and actually tried to be a little bit smarter. But according to most fans its nasty evil FFPs fault. 

We get it..you don't like our Chairman..ad fuckingnauseum..go blowyouself

[TheEnchanter]

1 hour ago, daveyboy66 said:

We get it..you don't like our Chairman..ad fuckingnauseum..go blowyouself

 

You're embarrassing yourself or have me mixed up. 

 

Ive been very critical of him over THIS subject. Which, is very justified isn't it? Or at least its debate worthy. Well at least try and debate it if youre capable. 

 

I'll start. We overspend we get punished. If we haven't overspent we won't get punished. No sure whats the shock. Tye disappointment is if we are a club that hasn't managed to keep itself in order and then gets punished.