Bannan & Forestieri Overrated?

[matthefish2002]

20 minutes ago, ka58 said:

forestieri came back in against derby after we had been without him for a couple of months - he’s now been benched for two consecutive games - why? 

 Fitness?

[nickswfc]

I thought we got Jones for a nominal fee. Was it really a few million!?

[meggoisgod]

Bannan is a good footballer but end product is minimal therefore I agree he is overrated.

 

Forrestieri IMO is underated as he is a genuine class act...but his fitness and attitude is questionable

 

Right now I'd get rid of every single one of them and start again. Reach is probably our most valuable asset and will probably end up at wolves in jan

[OwlinOldham]

Neither are really overated, they just arent really bringing anything game changing to us at the moment. Fessi is clearly not fit so a call cant really be made on him. To say hes not been the same since Norwich fiasco is unfair too, as others have said hes was awesome last season toward the end. Disintrested players dont do that.

 

Bannan is a tough one. Barry Bannan doesnt help himself or us when he tries to do it all. No doubt hes got passion and ability, but he can also be a liability. Regardless of who he plays alongside, he drops too deep. Playing Hutchinson wont set him free, same as dropping Pelupessy wont. Even when played alongside Lee (our best pairing in my eyes), Bannan was the deeper and the usually (at that time) defensive Lee started to play further forward and started to score and make goals for us.

 

Bannan needs to play further up the pitch and be fined everytime he comes deep for it. When he take the ball from the CBs, hes actually taking away the teams ability to pass into midfield. Him dropping deep means one less person to pass to and inbariably means we go longball over the top and lose posession. No matter who plays beside him, this os what he does. Did it under Carlos last season and still doing it under Jos. Hes a fast thinker and has quick feet, that ability employed in the final third is lethal. Employed in front of our own CBs is just useless. I dont think its tactical either, as hes done it under both Jos and Carlos. As someone further up said, he just seemingly wants to be involved in everything and its hindering rather than helping us.

[scilly owl]

Overrated ? 

Depends how highly you rate them I suppose.

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

6 minutes ago, OwlinOldham said:

Neither are really overated, they just arent really bringing anything game changing to us at the moment. Fessi is clearly not fit so a call cant really be made on him. To say hes not been the same since Norwich fiasco is unfair too, as others have said hes was awesome last season toward the end. Disintrested players dont do that.

 

Bannan is a tough one. Barry Bannan doesnt help himself or us when he tries to do it all. No doubt hes got passion and ability, but he can also be a liability. Regardless of who he plays alongside, he drops too deep. Playing Hutchinson wont set him free, same as dropping Pelupessy wont. Even when played alongside Lee (our best pairing in my eyes), Bannan was the deeper and the usually (at that time) defensive Lee started to play further forward and started to score and make goals for us.

 

Bannan needs to play further up the pitch and be fined everytime he comes deep for it. When he take the ball from the CBs, hes actually taking away the teams ability to pass into midfield. Him dropping deep means one less person to pass to and inbariably means we go longball over the top and lose posession. No matter who plays beside him, this os what he does. Did it under Carlos last season and still doing it under Jos. Hes a fast thinker and has quick feet, that ability employed in the final third is lethal. Employed in front of our own CBs is just useless. I dont think its tactical either, as hes done it under both Jos and Carlos. As someone further up said, he just seemingly wants to be involved in everything and its hindering rather than helping us.

All of this is spot on. All I want to add is that the mangers job is to ensure that the players understand and execute his gameplan. Therefore if it’s not tactical to have Bannan camped on the CBs shoelaces why isn’t the manager pushing him further upfield. Can’t imagine Sir Alex, Mourinho, Warnock etc telling a player to do one job and idly standing by as he decides to do something different.

[wawawuto]

38 minutes ago, nickswfc said:

I thought we got Jones for a nominal fee. Was it really a few million!?

 

About a million I thought

[wawawuto]

29 minutes ago, meggoisgod said:

Bannan is a good footballer but end product is minimal therefore I agree he is overrated.

 

Forrestieri IMO is underated as he is a genuine class act...but his fitness and attitude is questionable

 

Right now I'd get rid of every single one of them and start again. Reach is probably our most valuable asset and will probably end up at wolves in jan

 

I would agree with all of that to be honest. However, Forestieri is only a class act once or twice a season these days. 

[NeonLeon]

Only time I’ve ever seen Bannan play behind the forwards and not drop deep was his debut.

 

Looked different class that day too. I think every Wednesday fan agrees he plays far, far too deep. A lot of my Utd supporting mates constantly bring it up aswell, it genuinely baffles people why he plays on the centre halves toes. 

 

.

Edited December 2, 2018 by NeonLeon

[ES6owl]

I don’t think there over rated, I just don’t think either of them or the rest of the squad, have had a chance to even play in same starting 11 more than once consecutively and build on performances together. Ino we’ve had injury’s to deal with. But jos changes his squad around that much I think he picks the team out of a hat every week bar dawson.

Edited December 2, 2018 by ES6owl
Grammar

[OwlinOldham]

37 minutes ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

All of this is spot on. All I want to add is that the mangers job is to ensure that the players understand and execute his gameplan. Therefore if it’s not tactical to have Bannan camped on the CBs shoelaces why isn’t the manager pushing him further upfield. Can’t imagine Sir Alex, Mourinho, Warnock etc telling a player to do one job and idly standing by as he decides to do something different.

 

I honestly dont think either Jos or Carlos really wanted Bannan that deep as part of thier tactics. I also have said openly on here that i think Bannans play style is why hes not getting picked for scotland. As hes playing right now, his inclusion in any team demands the team makeup is changed to fit him in. As good a player as he is, that not and shouldnt really be happening.

 

It literally might be an honest case of him just trying to do it all himself. Which in turn is having a negative impact on his game and also the way we play. West brom without him was the best our midfield played. We were taking it to them from midfield and playing it about in front of thier defence looking for a way through. When was the last time we did that with Bannan in the team? I recon the manager must whinge at him after every game for being and playing so deep, yet hes also the only real chance of any magic happening so likely cant be dropped for it.  Imagine the uproar if he did get dropped? 

 

Its frustrating because he abilty on the ball is awesome. Its his inabilty to actually be in midfield and do what we need him to do that is the issue. 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2018 by OwlinOldham

[Guest ka58]

1 hour ago, matthefish2002 said:

 Fitness?

 

Nah - he was fit enough to start against derby.

 

 

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

3 minutes ago, OwlinOldham said:

 

I honestly dont think either Jos or Carlos really wanted Bannan that deep as part of thier tactics. I also have said openly on here that i think Bannans play style is why hes not getting picked for scotland. As hes playing right now, his inclusion in any team demands the team makeup is changed to fit him in. As good a player as he is, that not and shouldnt really be happening.

 

It literally might be an honest case of him just trying to do it all himself. Which in turn is having a negative impact on his game and also the way we play. West brom without him was the best our midfield played. We were taking it to them from midfield and playing it about in front of thier defence looking for a way through. When was the last time we did that with Bannan in the team? I recon the manager must ball him after every game for being and playing so deep, yet hes also the only real chance of any magic happening so likely cant be dropped for it.  

 

Its frustrating because he abilty on the ball is awesome. Its his inabilty to actually be in midfield and do what we need him to do that is the issue. 

 

 

We have similar views on Bannan’s qualities and effective use but I see no evidence of either Dross or CC balling him out TBH. Nothing evident from the touch line during the game. No change of role after halftime team talk  Never dropped for failing to follow team orders. Never mentioned in interviews for playing too deep. Also he’s picked as a CM alongside Joey (previously Hutch or Lee). If the manager really understands Bannan’s worth further forward why not play Jones or Hutch alongside Joey and push Bannan further forward in a 3 behind a CF?

i do agree that Bannan tries to do too much, sometimes to the detriment of the group but feel he needs more leadership and guidance from the so called manager

[TomtheOwl95]

Bannan has had a recent dip in form. Mostly in my opinion down to the fact we are far too reliant on him and it was inevitable he was going to suffer a drop off but overall has been fantastic for us.

 

Forestieri is still the best player at Sheffield Wednesday. He's clearly not match fit at the moment. One of the few things I don't blame Jos for at the moment is managing the players like Fernando and Fletcher who clearly can't do 90 minutes. We're still suffering from not managing players better under the previous regime.

[OwlinOldham]

1 minute ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

We have similar views on Bannan’s qualities and effective use but I see no evidence of either Dross or CC balling him out TBH. Nothing evident from the touch line during the game. No change of role after halftime team talk  Never dropped for failing to follow team orders. Never mentioned in interviews for playing too deep. Also he’s picked as a CM alongside Joey (previously Hutch or Lee). If the manager really understands Bannan’s worth further forward why not play Jones or Hutch alongside Joey and push Bannan further forward in a 3 behind a CF?

i do agree that Bannan tries to do too much, sometimes to the detriment of the group but feel he needs more leadership and guidance from the so called manager

 

You may be right. At the end of the day all we can do is guess and speculate. Maybe he has a free role? Probably more likely given the fact hes allowed to go where he likes.

 

The real issue is that regardless of who is played, Bannan will still drop deep. Hutchinson and Joey playing with him wouldnt stop that. I like Hutch but hes as bad for going deep as Bannan.  When they play together we literally have no midfield at all. 

 

One thing ive noticed this season is Bannan drops in, gets the ball and passed to Joey. At that point Joey doesnt have a pass on to anyone else as Bannan isnt in midfield and so the ball goes back. If the CB were allowed to bring the ball out and not just give it to Bannan, we might then have a shot at building an attack.

 

Either way, its frustrating as a fan to watch and also annoying to see someone we know is a good player just not playing as well as they can.

[ReginaldD]

As others have said, would both look great in another team

[james o connor]

Bannan is a quality player, he is great on the ball with a good engine .  He is really poor in front of goal though , but a decent championship midfielder .

 

forestieri has ability but a shocking attitude and like many of our players , is a crock . He is massively overrated by our fans , nobody else is particularly pressed by him 

[WalthamOwl]

Personally rightly or wrongly I think FF is a player that needs his manager to show him some love and feel wanted and appreciated. I doubt Jos does that. 

[Lawrie Madden]

On 02/12/2018 at 15:23, WelshOwl74 said:

I got slatted for saying bannan was overrated 18 month ago

 

there's a reason he's in the championship at 29 and failed more than once in the premier league.

 

half decent for this league but there's better midfielders in this league than him

Aye tha were wrong 18 months ago and tha still wrong 

[trev]

9 hours ago, WalthamOwl said:

Personally rightly or wrongly I think FF is a player that needs his manager to show him some love and feel wanted and appreciated. I doubt Jos does that. 

100% this.

 

He is clearly the kind of player who needs a good man manager.

 

He looks depressed when on the pitch at the moment. Even when the team scores he seems to not be bothered.

 

Not sure if that's the managers fault or if he wants to leave...but either way his performances are showing it.

 

I hope that whoever replaces Jos is the kind of manager who can get the best out of our best players as we have a good squad, we just have a poor manager.