Changed my mind on sacking Jos - (Here me out)

[Markowski77]

I've been like the majority of the fans over the past few weeks,  Jos out, jos is c-rap, he hasn't got a clue etc etc. But after the potential scenarios I think getting rid at this point would be the wrong thing to do. 

 

For instance

- Who do we get? They have no money to buy players, got to sell our so called marquee players, work under a very odd/bizarre situation that we only know the surface of. No manager would want the job it's a poisoned chalice

 

Jos isn't my choice and needs to go at the end of the season, however we know DC is higley unlikely to get rid anytime soon - so we've got to stick and ride out the storm, until the end of the season and hopefully avoid relegation of which I think we will. That Bolton team gave me hope that there are far worse teams then us this season

 

we need to achieve as many points as possible until the end of jan transfer window to give us some breathing space, because let's face it we are going to be selling players

 

Then we do a monumental rebuild in pre season,  manager, backroom staff, players the lot - achieve a new identity and philiospy that we can associate with SWFC. The new manager will be under financial restraints but at least will be able to pick his team

 

In the meantime we need to try and get behind SWFC, at the end of the day it's our club and we support them through thick and thin, managers & chairmen change he supporters never do

 

WAWAW

 

 

 

[ReadingOwl]

Jos is working within the constraints of the current Chairman, it seems to me.

 

I absolutely cannot believe that he has full autonomy.

 

Don’t see why he should carry the blame.

 

It’s a circus alright - but he isn’t the ring master.

[sheffield_dave]

6 minutes ago, ReadingOwl said:

Jos is working within the constraints of the current Chairman, it seems to me.

 

I absolutely cannot believe that he has full autonomy.

 

Don’t see why he should carry the blame.

 

It’s a circus alright - but he isn’t the ring master.

 

You don’t need to be the ringmaster. It’s someone’s job to decide things like getting some of the lions to jump through 4 hoops, without changing it to 5 the next week, and back to 4 again after that. Or not keeping the lion that does the best jump locked in the cage for the next show..

 

Silly circus analogy aside, there’s things that are directly within Jos’ control that he does a sh*t, baffling job of.

 

Also - and this goes for literally every single time this gets brought up - the argument “who else is there?” is stupid nonsense (no offence, OP). It’s football management, not rocket science. There is always another manager. There is always interest in Championship jobs from both in and out of work managers. There is always someone else.

[theowlsman]

Sorry, don’t want to hear you out.

 

We’re already in dereliction of duty territory.

 

Should already have been booted out.

[ZicoSterland2]

10 minutes ago, ReadingOwl said:

Jos is working within the constraints of the current Chairman, it seems to me.

 

I absolutely cannot believe that he has full autonomy.

 

Don’t see why he should carry the blame.

 

It’s a circus alright - but he isn’t the ring master.

If he is not managing and in charge of selections then he is here for the money only. His motivational skills obviously dont work and his tactics are horrendous. He gets paid for results and if they are poor he must accept the blame. If he is not in control then he should show some pride and walk.

[ChinaOwl]

The very popular opinion on here at the moment is get rid of Jos no matter what. Take a step back and think of a few key points. Most of the recent frenzy is about the recent run of five defeats and a draw. If you add to that Jos' dour personality and obsession with tinkering with the team, omitting favourites, defensive outlook, etc., it is easy to understand why so many people are on that band wagon. 

 

Look at it another way. We have 23 points from 19 points. Now take out the run of one point from six games. It means that the other thirteen games this season has accounted for twenty two points. With the squad he has, that is close onto a minor miracle. 

 

So what is the true Jos? Is it the six game run or the other thirteen? Holmowl posted threads in the early part of the season that proved that, when Pelupessy, Bannan and Reach started together, we amassed around two points a game over a large enough number of games that it could not just be wrote off as an anomaly. Two points a game is bordering on the sensational.

 

I would suggest holding off and assessing his performance game to game as there is absolutely no rationale for rushing into the decision to sack him purely on footballing reasons. If it is done, it could turn out to be kneejerk and there is a higher probability than not that the next guy does no better or maybe even worse. My own view is that there is no imminent threat from relegation and we can wait for the time being at least.

 

I remember all too well, Laws having a similar run when we lost the first six games of a season. It would have been easy to give him the push based on popular opinion at the time. Many of those that are saying relegation is inevitable now would have said the same thing back then. 

 

I am not saying that Jos is a good appointment that can rebuild and take us to success. I frowned at his appointment. I don't particular like the guy but FFS sacking him right now may be a dangerous game to play.

[OWLERTON GHOST]

Are the kids off school already !!!!

[NYCOWL]

My biggest issue is that I have no faith that his replacement will be the correct choice.

 

I’m done with “left field appointments”

 

I want someone who knows how to get out of this division.

[ReadingOwl]

2 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

You don’t need to be the ringmaster. It’s someone’s job to decide things like getting some of the lions to jump through 4 hoops, without changing it to 5 the next week, and back to 4 again after that. Or not keeping the lion that does the best jump locked in the cage for the next show..

 

Silly circus analogy aside, there’s things that are directly within Jos’ control that he does a sh*t, baffling job of.

 

Also - and this goes for literally every single time this gets brought up - the argument “who else is there?” is stupid nonsense (no offence, OP). It’s football management, not rocket science. There is always another manager. There is always interest in Championship jobs from both in and out of work managers. There is always someone else.

 

If you think the manager is the primary problem - then sorry, I can’t agree.

 

Is he good/bad - no idea, but I suspect he’s not very good (I take into account your and, others, criticisms). But we were in the top six not so long ago.

 

But he’s working to a script - the Chairman, with a complete clean page, plucked this bloke “who was about to retire” from complete obscurity?

 

Give me a break.

 

Who are we going to get? Not really interested - it’s irrelevant at the moment.

 

More interested in the tools and autonomy any future manager will have.

 

That’s why Jos was picked - and why he won’t be sacked.

 

[Bark1062]

26 minutes ago, ReadingOwl said:

Jos is working within the constraints of the current Chairman, it seems to me.

 

I absolutely cannot believe that he has full autonomy.

 

Don’t see why he should carry the blame.

 

It’s a circus alright - but he isn’t the ring master.

No he manages the chimps who appear to not want to perform for him, not surprising really as the leaders of the pack are being overlooked for the kids.....apparently!!

[NYCOWL]

7 minutes ago, ReadingOwl said:

 

If you think the manager is the primary problem - then sorry, I can’t agree.

 

I’m afraid I’ve been banging this particular drum for a very long time.

 

Succesful organisations, of any type, are well run from top to bottom. 

 

With an emphasis on the top.

[ReadingOwl]

14 minutes ago, ZicoSterland2 said:

If he is not managing and in charge of selections then he is here for the money only. His motivational skills obviously dont work and his tactics are horrendous. He gets paid for results and if they are poor he must accept the blame. If he is not in control then he should show some pride and walk.

 

So you think, if fit, by this stage of the season, Westwood, Abdi, Jones, Boyd & Hutchinson aren’t even getting on the bench?

 

If fit?

 

Don't believe it. I don’t believe he has total autononmy.

 

If posts are to be believed (hasn’t the manager been recently interviewed) the bloke didn’t even know we were under an embargo.

 

Dont disagree that anyones principles when managing, under those constraints, have to be questioned.

 

Will the next bloke be treated any differently?

[Bluesteel]

I think we need a different figurehead to bring a link between club and fans which has been missing since we lost the derby at Hillsborough. That would be the best decision the chairman could make in my view but it’s whether he will. 

 

I also accept that its pretty harsh on Jos who has had his hands tied but I think it shows the importance of wider traits when times are hard. You have to play the game with the fan base unless you’re winning most weeks.

 

When McCarthy was available I thought it was a no brainer. But now we should probably wait until we know the right person is interested. If some of the higher profile managers were I think a change might’ve been made already.

[sternlad]

Tend to agree with Reading Owl on this. I don’t think he’ll be sacked either because he’s been brought in for a reason...to survive without having to spend or have good players to work with. Chansiris big mistake was saying that we have to be promoted to avoid the FFP sword of Damacles, as I think people still clung on to the hope and thought maybe we’ll go for it. So everything since that point has been a disappointment, Chansiri now has a real problem because he won’t be able to sell the club in its present run down but expensive state and it won’t be a good future investment for any buyer if FFP starts to bite next season. In short Jos is simply a puppet for Chansiri to manipulate, and SWFC are a mere plaything for Chansiri to string along and ditch when he’s ready.

However, the team have a game on Saturday and our fans will be there voicing their support (or howling their derision) depending on who’s picked and who turns up on the pitch. As a long distance fan I’d be quite happy if the club spent a few more years in the Championship, it’s a good competitive league with, for the most part , real supporters and if in that few years we at last developed into a sensible, fair priced, well run club I’d be more than happy. I don’t think it’s going to happen without a lot of pain though twixt now and then.

 

[Mountain Owl]

The major problems at our club lies at the very top with a chairman who is arrogant, won't listen and has made a whole list of horrendous decisions. One of those was the appointment of Jos who appears to fall out easily with senior pro's and is tactically woefull and still hopelessly naive of what the championship is all about. Any decent chairman would have sacked him after the Norwich embarressment. As for who would take the job I can guarantee they would queing up and banging on the door because anyone who knows football knows if you can kick start this club the momentum can be massive. Look at what Big Jack and Big Ron both did when we were on the road to doom.

[Blatter]

33 minutes ago, ChinaOwl said:

The very popular opinion on here at the moment is get rid of Jos no matter what. Take a step back and think of a few key points. Most of the recent frenzy is about the recent run of five defeats and a draw. If you add to that Jos' dour personality and obsession with tinkering with the team, omitting favourites, defensive outlook, etc., it is easy to understand why so many people are on that band wagon. 

 

Look at it another way. We have 23 points from 19 points. Now take out the run of one point from six games. It means that the other thirteen games this season has accounted for twenty two points. With the squad he has, that is close onto a minor miracle. 

 

So what is the true Jos? Is it the six game run or the other thirteen? Holmowl posted threads in the early part of the season that proved that, when Pelupessy, Bannan and Reach started together, we amassed around two points a game over a large enough number of games that it could not just be wrote off as an anomaly. Two points a game is bordering on the sensational.

 

I would suggest holding off and assessing his performance game to game as there is absolutely no rationale for rushing into the decision to sack him purely on footballing reasons. If it is done, it could turn out to be kneejerk and there is a higher probability than not that the next guy does no better or maybe even worse. My own view is that there is no imminent threat from relegation and we can wait for the time being at least.

 

I remember all too well, Laws having a similar run when we lost the first six games of a season. It would have been easy to give him the push based on popular opinion at the time. Many of those that are saying relegation is inevitable now would have said the same thing back then. 

 

I am not saying that Jos is a good appointment that can rebuild and take us to success. I frowned at his appointment. I don't particular like the guy but FFS sacking him right now may be a dangerous game to play.

I also saw stats that showed when we play with 3 centre backs we have averaged 1.5 points per game during Jos’s time. 

With 2 central defenders in a back four it’s an average 1 point per game, or 46 points in a season which is a likely relegation total.

 

I cannot understand why Jos cannot see this and keeps switching to a back four

 

 

[ZicoSterland2]

18 minutes ago, ReadingOwl said:

 

So you think, if fit, by this stage of the season, Westwood, Abdi, Jones, Boyd & Hutchinson aren’t even getting on the bench?

 

If fit?

 

Don't believe it. I don’t believe he has total autononmy.

 

If posts are to be believed (hasn’t the manager been recently interviewed) the bloke didn’t even know we were under an embargo.

 

Dont disagree that anyones principles when managing, under those constraints, have to be questioned.

 

Will the next bloke be treated any differently?

If he didnt know that what is his role ? No more excuses for me he is naive at best or plain stupid. He needs to go.The next manager would know the position we are in. Tuesday was shocking and no one can justify that performance against one of the worst teams in the league.

[sherlyegg]

16 minutes ago, sternlad said:

I don’t think he’ll be sacked either because he’s been brought in for a reason

He will be gone by xmas (unless we go on a bit of a winning run before) Unlikely...

16,000 against Bolton..fan unrest no chance can he survive.

 

17 minutes ago, Mountain Owl said:

with a chairman who is arrogant, won't listen and has made a whole list of horrendous decisions.

Well he listened to them who wheeled Jos out and CC...and a few players, or is he really the secret scout

[ReadingOwl]

1 minute ago, ZicoSterland2 said:

If he didnt know that what is his role ? No more excuses for me he is naive at best or plain stupid. He needs to go.The next manager would know the position we are in. Tuesday was shocking and no one can justify that performance against one of the worst teams in the league.

 

So you think the Chairman picked him, or his advisors chose him, because he was the standout candidate?

 

A bloke who was “about to retire”.

 

I have no objection to people saying he’s rubbish.

 

But look at the methodology behind his appointment.

 

So what will change - has the Chairman or CEO issued a statement lately, promising us all a new dawn?

 

Who do you want in next - Another nobody?

[McRightSide]

49 minutes ago, ChinaOwl said:

The very popular opinion on here at the moment is get rid of Jos no matter what. Take a step back and think of a few key points. Most of the recent frenzy is about the recent run of five defeats and a draw. If you add to that Jos' dour personality and obsession with tinkering with the team, omitting favourites, defensive outlook, etc., it is easy to understand why so many people are on that band wagon. 

 

Look at it another way. We have 23 points from 19 points. Now take out the run of one point from six games. It means that the other thirteen games this season has accounted for twenty two points. With the squad he has, that is close onto a minor miracle. 

 

So what is the true Jos? Is it the six game run or the other thirteen? Holmowl posted threads in the early part of the season that proved that, when Pelupessy, Bannan and Reach started together, we amassed around two points a game over a large enough number of games that it could not just be wrote off as an anomaly. Two points a game is bordering on the sensational.

 

I would suggest holding off and assessing his performance game to game as there is absolutely no rationale for rushing into the decision to sack him purely on footballing reasons. If it is done, it could turn out to be kneejerk and there is a higher probability than not that the next guy does no better or maybe even worse. My own view is that there is no imminent threat from relegation and we can wait for the time being at least.

 

I remember all too well, Laws having a similar run when we lost the first six games of a season. It would have been easy to give him the push based on popular opinion at the time. Many of those that are saying relegation is inevitable now would have said the same thing back then. 

 

I am not saying that Jos is a good appointment that can rebuild and take us to success. I frowned at his appointment. I don't particular like the guy but FFS sacking him right now may be a dangerous game to play.

 

Take out our bad run and we’re doing well.

 

Delusion of the highest order