Changed my mind on sacking Jos - (Here me out)

[ChinaOwl]

2 minutes ago, vulva said:

Just because DC has made mistakes doesn’t mean Jos can get away with doing a poor job. 

 

The 2 issues need looking at in isolation. 

 

When the house is falling apart at the foundations, let's change the boiler system because then, at least we can keep warm for the winter.

[Savo]

It’s anybodies guess as to what kind of craziness is going on behind the scenes.  There is a lot of guessing going on.  

 

The reality is Jos’ position is completely untenable.  Anybody who has had to sit through any game this year knows how bad we are.  A series of disjointed displays,  constant team and formation changes,  expensive players sat twiddling their thumbs and complete apathy in the stands. 

 

i don’t care who’s pulling the strings and lets be honest nobody really knows.  Anybody who says they do is just guessing and perpetuating the myth of poor old Jos hos hands are tied.  That’s a load of bull,  whether he is manager or head coach he is failing badly at his job and it’s time to go.

 

 

 

[vulva]

1 minute ago, ChinaOwl said:

 

When the house is falling apart at the foundations, let's change the boiler system because then, at least we can keep warm for the winter.

In terms of recruitment, a hole is better than an arsehole. That’s too harsh on Jos, because he’s not an arsehole, but the principle is correct. 

[handworth52]

7 minutes ago, ChinaOwl said:

 

Aye, many a strange thing going on indeed.

 

To make things clear about my position on Jos, I am not making a glowing endorsement for the guy when I say hold fire on his dismissal. I think that there are strange things going on at all levels of the club at the moment and changing the manager now will probably not make any material difference to the situation. I would prefer to wait until January and assess what Chansiri is going to do next. I have a hunch, I want to see what actually transpires.

 

In the meantime, Jos simply needs to keep the club in the division and take the flack for everything that is going on. When the time is right (hopefully before the end of the season), I hope both Chansiri and Jos walk together. The club needs a clean sweep in much the same way that Forest did post Fawaz and Villa did post Xia. Getting rid of one without the other would be sticking plaster repair job in my opinion.

totally agree that my club need rid of both if we are ever to bottom out , I see us as the next Coventry,portsmouth  or even worse the next  Darlington, chester this of coarse can all be avoided but unfortunately it will involve our best players leaving for big fees and then a shrewd manager getting in free transfers or loans what can keep us up. 

[gurujuan]

18 minutes ago, Savo said:

It’s anybodies guess as to what kind of craziness is going on behind the scenes.  There is a lot of guessing going on.  

 

The reality is Jos’ position is completely untenable.  Anybody who has had to sit through any game this year knows how bad we are.  A series of disjointed displays,  constant team and formation changes,  expensive players sat twiddling their thumbs and complete apathy in the stands. 

 

i don’t care who’s pulling the strings and lets be honest nobody really knows.  Anybody who says they do is just guessing and perpetuating the myth of poor old Jos hos hands are tied.  That’s a load of bull,  whether he is manager or head coach he is failing badly at his job and it’s time to go.

 

 

 

That’s the way I feel, and there have been plenty of examples of sides doing well on the pitch, despite troubles off it

[Lincs Owl]

10 hours ago, shezzas left peg said:

Abdi would fall over his comfy slippers. 

Boyd is a steam engine, grounded now becouse coal is hardly used. 

Jones is like me these days the brain is willing but the body just laughs. 

As for Rhodes can we all pray that Delia makes good yorkies and will pay us to keep him in the back of beyon (sorry Suffolk) 

 

Norwich is in Suffolk?  Wow.  

[ChinaOwl]

2 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

That’s the way I feel, and there have been plenty of examples of sides doing well on the pitch, despite troubles off it

 

Aye, you don't have to go much further than S2 to find an example of what you are talking about. But then they have their Wilder who is so much one of that lot that, despite his moaning, is prepared to let it go over his head and get on with it. Fine if you can find such a guy.

 

What I suspect will happen if we sack Jos here and now is Chansiri will panic and get a Jos clone in to the job. If change is to be made, it would be better to identify the new guy and get him fixed to the contract before diving in and getting rid of Jos. Will that happen?

[shezzas left peg]

9 minutes ago, Lincs Owl said:

 

Norwich is in Suffolk?  Wow.  

Haha I think the working week early starts Hull(HELL) Balfours, followed by copious amounts of whiskey to wash it away had started to take hold by then bud

[gurujuan]

4 minutes ago, ChinaOwl said:

 

Aye, you don't have to go much further than S2 to find an example of what you are talking about. But then they have their Wilder who is so much one of that lot that, despite his moaning, is prepared to let it go over his head and get on with it. Fine if you can find such a guy.

 

What I suspect will happen if we sack Jos here and now is Chansiri will panic and get a Jos clone in to the job. If change is to be made, it would be better to identify the new guy and get him fixed to the contract before diving in and getting rid of Jos. Will that happen?

Yes, that would be the danger When Jos came, he was described as a good organiser who could take this group of players, and forge a side that was difficult to  beat Personally I had no great expectations of the attacking football we were promised when DC first arrived, but if a more pragmatic coach like Jos, could get our promotion charge back on track, then I could deal with it, just about. 

Sadly, there’s been no sign of those famed organisational skills, and we find ourselves floundering at the wrong end of the table. Whilst I never expected Jos to have the passion for the club that Wilder has for that lot, I didn’t expect that Wilder would leave Jos standing tactically. As a person, I don’t particularly like Wilder, but I suspect he’s a better tactician, certainly than most of us thought

[Jim]

1 hour ago, handworth52 said:

im not 100% sure on that urr probably right , but why has joost van aken been as good as frozen out too? played last 4 u23s training for 7 wks ,had a full pre season played 2 games in august. its really upsetting and frustrating whats going off. 

 

I think it’s a simple case of Van Aken just not being cut out for championship football. I expect him to head off back to Holland in January on Loan.

[ChinaOwl]

2 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Yes, that would be the danger When Jos came, he was described as a good organiser who could take this group of players, and forge a side that was difficult to  beat Personally I had no great expectations of the attacking football we were promised when DC first arrived, but if a more pragmatic coach like Jos, could get our promotion charge back on track, then I could deal with it, just about. 

Sadly, there’s been no sign of those famed organisational skills, and we find ourselves floundering at the wrong end of the table. Whilst I never expected Jos to have the passion for the club that Wilder has for that lot, I didn’t expect that Wilder would leave Jos standing tactically. As a person, I don’t particularly like Wilder, but I suspect he’s a better tactician, certainly than most of us thought

 

You see what I am afraid of with Chansiri is he does everything with the best of intentions but sometimes he seems to rush into decisions that later make no sense. If change of manager is to be made, I would prefer it to be a considered decision looking at the individual merits of various candidates. That might take a while but so be it. That would be better than swapping Jos No.1 for Jos No.2. I would love for example Jokanovic and Stuey to be given a chance but, I know in the back of my mind, it is unrealistic and the odds are stacked on it being another unknown nobody from the back of beyond.

[daleblue]

12 hours ago, ReadingOwl said:

 

Someone keeps repeating on here, and, I have no reason to disbelieve him/her, that Jos isn’t a Doyen client/on their books.

 

No idea - that type of investigatory scrutiny is way beyond me.

Some one on here will know. 

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, ChinaOwl said:

 

You see what I am afraid of with Chansiri is he does everything with the best of intentions but sometimes he seems to rush into decisions that later make no sense. If change of manager is to be made, I would prefer it to be a considered decision looking at the individual merits of various candidates. That might take a while but so be it. That would be better than swapping Jos No.1 for Jos No.2. I would love for example Jokanovic and Stuey to be given a chance but, I know in the back of my mind, it is unrealistic and the odds are stacked on it being another unknown nobody from the back of beyond.

Yes, that appointment would be appealing. When Jos was appointed, to DC, it probably made sense. He will have been aware of our financial situation, and in his mind, he probably thought we had the players, so appointing a coach with supposed organisational skills, would be the logical thing to do. Yes, it went against his stated aim, of entertaining football, but he probably thought that a more pragmatic coach might get us over the line

[ChinaOwl]

1 minute ago, gurujuan said:

Yes, that appointment would be appealing. When Jos was appointed, to DC, it probably made sense. He will have been aware of our financial situation, and in his mind, he probably thought we had the players, so appointing a coach with supposed organisational skills, would be the logical thing to do. Yes, it went against his stated aim, of entertaining football, but he probably thought that a more pragmatic coach might get us over the line

 

Or alternatively, he was available and prepared to do the job under the constraints that he would be facing. That is not an attractive policy to be basing a recruitment policy on.

[Jim]

Jos is becoming more and more the face of the club very much in the way Brian Laws was when he was Manager at the time when no one in the boardroom was prepared to step up as chairman. 

 

I was a critic of Laws but I can see now he did a decent job in trying circumstances and one of the reasons why he did was he had an ability to connect with the fans despite the moans and groans that were directed at him.

 

Lukuhay comes across as being totally disconnected certainty from the fanbase and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it’s the same in the dressing room? The Chairman appears to have gone to ground and the CEO doesn’t appear to be the public figure she was in her previous job? So in a nutshell it’s down to Lukuhay to take all the flak and this is something he appears quite happy to do despite the reputation he had in Germany for walking out on jobs?

 

The current situation is utterly bizarre but I think the next two months will be very telling?

[sheffield_dave]

14 hours ago, ReadingOwl said:

 

If you think the manager is the primary problem - then sorry, I can’t agree.

 

Is he good/bad - no idea, but I suspect he’s not very good (I take into account your and, others, criticisms). But we were in the top six not so long ago.

 

But he’s working to a script - the Chairman, with a complete clean page, plucked this bloke “who was about to retire” from complete obscurity?

 

Give me a break.

 

 

We've literally had a situation this season where a lad was voted player of the month - a defender in a season where we still hadn’t kept a clean sheet upto that point - was dropped for the following game.

 

We see the “system” and the “formation” change weekly. Do we play a back 4 or 5? Does anyone know? Do the players?

 

Is Chansiri telling him to do that?

 

As Vulva said above, we have issues with both the manager and chairman and they can be criticised independently from one another. To give the manager a free pass or place him above criticism because he’s a puppet of the chairman is excuse making, and absolves the manager of any responsibility for some of the baffling decisions HE makes week on week.

[striker]

Not changed my mind, Jos needs to go.

 

The club seems to be in a state of paralysis until DC makes the necessary change.

 

We may be prohibited from spending money by the EFL allowing us to compete, but a unified team and fan base can still deliver a decent season. That simply is never going to happen with Jos.

[alanharper]

1 hour ago, handworth52 said:

im not 100% sure on that urr probably right , but why has joost van aken been as good as frozen out too? played last 4 u23s training for 7 wks ,had a full pre season played 2 games in august. its really upsetting and frustrating whats going off. 

 

Maybe because he's bloody awful,  an absolute car crash of a defender. Did you go to Wigan? He gave one of the worst defending "performances" I've seen in my almost four decades of watching us, it's up there with "Reynolds at Dagenham". And then there was his leading role in the pig debacle. 

 

Never mind freezing out, he needs to be cryogenically frozen until futuristic technology has been developed to turn him into a footballer. 

[vulva]

Van Aken at Wigan was like watching my kids eat their Spag Bol in the front room on the Laura Ashley rug, plate balanced on their knee not concentrating. 

[hangonrose]

The one thing that is impossible to ignore is that his record - in a comparable league situation - is that, as a manager, he has the ability to manage players and inspire - yes, inspire - them to gain promotions.  So it is difficult to point the finger at him specifically from an inspiration point of view, however undemonstrative he is as a manager (to us).  So, where's the problem??  Players refusing to 'do and they're told', or the upper management for not being able to plot a path forward?  Sorry not to have the answer, but buying 'over the hill' players for silly amounts, and probably paying them silly amounts, must have something to do with it.

 

Who would have given Daniel Farke at Norwich a cat's chance, having lost 5-1 to SWFC (yes, the beleaguered SWFC) in the last game last season.  And now he's top of the league.  Suggest that it's not a manager situation, but circumstances out of his control, and he's just a part of it...