Matt Penney Contract

[Orlando_Trustful]

He deserves double what Fox is on. 

[jonesy87shef]

2 hours ago, Bluesteel said:

As he will have seen with Hirst and Clare, the grass isn’t always greener, especially when compensation comes into play. He will have also experienced the perils of relying on a loan and waiting in the wings here. A move could be lucrative but it may be back to square one again in terms of really starting a career.

 

Im hopeful that provided we make a good enough offer to be competitive, even if not the best, the draw of playing for his own team for the short term and really kicking on will be enough to get it done. 

 

Too many players skip a step and go for the early and easy money (who can blame them) but does it always benefit them career wise and financially in the longer term. Presumably you’d earn more if you moved for a big fee like Brooks, Maddison  etc but you could quite easily get lost in the youth system 

if you don’t do your time. For example, Kiwomya made the move to Chelsea but is now at Donny Rovers.

 

Kiwomya went to Chelsea as a kid. That was probably best thing at the time for him as his family as I would assume that set them up for life. It didn’t work out and now he can start from where he was with a wad of cash. Also having better coaches improve him. I would argue there is no substitution for game time though:

 

I’ve got an example in the other direction. Alex Mowatt. Seemed tipped for a big momey prem move. Great prospect: Never happened for whatever reason. Definitely not suggesting he rejected one, but if he had moved he’d be set for life now. Instead moved to Barnsley after falling out of favour; season loan to a bang average Oxford side. Now looking impressive and rebuilding his career at Barnsley. 

 

I bet he’d swap places with Lewis Cook, Sam Byram or Charlie Taylor in a flash. All 3 players got prem moves in the same couple of years. Similar to Penny in age. Taylor has had decent game time as has Cook (not so much this season) and Byram back to championship on loan with huge boost in wages. Not all youngsters making the step up disappear. Plenty make it too.

 

I’d love to keep him, just think it would be naive to think staying with us is his best option. It could well prove to be, but if I was close to the lad I’d be saying go for the money and if it doesn’t work then put the effort in and come back stronger, you’ll need strength carrying the huge bags of cash.

[Paul..]

6 hours ago, jonesy87shef said:

 

Kiwomya went to Chelsea as a kid. That was probably best thing at the time for him as his family as I would assume that set them up for life. It didn’t work out and now he can start from where he was with a wad of cash. Also having better coaches improve him. I would argue there is no substitution for game time though:

 

 

It's not always the answer to take the first big offer, read the story here about George Green who moved from Bradford City to Everton as a kid: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45476430

 

[Bluesteel]

6 hours ago, jonesy87shef said:

 

Kiwomya went to Chelsea as a kid. That was probably best thing at the time for him as his family as I would assume that set them up for life. It didn’t work out and now he can start from where he was with a wad of cash. Also having better coaches improve him. I would argue there is no substitution for game time though:

 

I’ve got an example in the other direction. Alex Mowatt. Seemed tipped for a big momey prem move. Great prospect: Never happened for whatever reason. Definitely not suggesting he rejected one, but if he had moved he’d be set for life now. Instead moved to Barnsley after falling out of favour; season loan to a bang average Oxford side. Now looking impressive and rebuilding his career at Barnsley. 

 

I bet he’d swap places with Lewis Cook, Sam Byram or Charlie Taylor in a flash. All 3 players got prem moves in the same couple of years. Similar to Penny in age. Taylor has had decent game time as has Cook (not so much this season) and Byram back to championship on loan with huge boost in wages. Not all youngsters making the step up disappear. Plenty make it too.

 

I’d love to keep him, just think it would be naive to think staying with us is his best option. It could well prove to be, but if I was close to the lad I’d be saying go for the money and if it doesn’t work then put the effort in and come back stronger, you’ll need strength carrying the huge bags of cash.

 

There’s a difference as Taylor played nearly 100 times for Leeds before moving which meant he was moving as an established player rather than someone on the fringes. Not suggesting Penney will never do that.

 

Kiwomya did ok financially but there’s also the unknown of where might he be had he proven himself in a first team somewhere. Penney has a great platform to build his career here in the short term, there are fewer uncertainties with staying as there are in moving and if he is on a first team wage here then that will not be insignificant.

 

There are always exceptions to the rule either way, usually ones who are not good enough such as Mowatt who hasn’t kept it up. But generally speaking these players disappear into a reserve side for a few years, end up on loan in the champ and then back to the championship permanently. Patrick Bamford left Forest and no doubt earnt a few quid but he’s gone around the houses a bit. I think it just depends if maximum earnings is the be all and end all in the short term.

[Sonny]

I will confidently give this contract situation a firm ‘be reyt’.

[room0035]

16 hours ago, torryowl said:

I've seen him play.....you must be naive if you think sacking Joss is the answer to Penney not signi g a new deal.... the lad holds all the cards why would he sign anything at this time when knows that come the summer they could be host clubs offering far better deals than we can give him...

I really do not know what planet you are on some times where did I say sack the manager, the manager has nothing to do with contracts of players.

[DuttyTeabags]

2 hours ago, פɹᴉɯqɐɹᴉɐu said:

 

It's not always the answer to take the first big offer, read the story here about George Green who moved from Bradford City to Everton as a kid: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45476430

 

Yeh but you can buy chop in police stations in Liverpool hardly a surprise 

[WalthamOwl]

Lets stop pi$$ing about and get this lad signed to a long term contract which is exactly what he deserves.

[Inspector Lestrade]

Over the years we have had young players who looked promising then faded away and had players who looked nervous and flustered and had to move away to kick-start their careers.

 

Being a football manager and seeing a player develop must be one of the most rewarding parts of the job (apart from the vast wage they get) equally having to let go a player who showed great promise but didn't develop must be the worse aspect of the job.

 

Penney is showing great promise maybe Premiership standard would be fantastic to see him flourish in a Wednesday side. 

[striker]

It's a fairly  unusual scenario as the club aren't used to developing young players, certainly in recent times per Jos.

 

Still early in his career but he's established himself as a first team regular and to be fair the only LB/LWB at the club (difficult to recognise Fox as a footballer). Therin suggests he could be justified in expecting 1st team money commensurate with deals given to Dawson and Wildsmith?

 

The backstop if his form does drop is that he is likely to have an asset value for sale based on early promise, should we want to sell to recoup some money.

 

I would certainly like to see him stay and develop his game, not seen anything to suggest this isn't the aim of all parties so assume it will get done in due course 

 

 

[torryowl]

On ‎17‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:00, room0035 said:

I really do not know what planet you are on some times where did I say sack the manager, the manager has nothing to do with contracts of players.

so you don't think jos as any say in which players get contracts and which don't …….putting that aside , who do you think wants sacking then for not being able to get penney signed up ? chansiri? katrien ? bullen ?......who .

[room0035]

36 minutes ago, torryowl said:

so you don't think jos as any say in which players get contracts and which don't …….putting that aside , who do you think wants sacking then for not being able to get penney signed up ? chansiri? katrien ? bullen ?......who .

No say what so ever if he did we would have sign a lot more players up.

 

Karen was brought in to sort the contracts and the transfers, she didn't do very well with Hirst or Clare though I think the problem with Hirst was the Chairman.

 

A football club lives and dies on their back room staff, the megastore will success or fail based on the ability of the marketing and the manager to entice customers in, the pitch if maintained well will aid the players but the playing and coaching staff can not dictate whether the ground staff are any good only actions can. 

 

The same goes for those looking after the players contract we are led to believe by the club its the lass from Charlton since she has been here we lost all the players out of contract from last season other than giving Nuihu a new deal and the crock Pudil a new deal, this season we have 13 first team squad players out of contracts we have resigned Bannan and Joao - we have Penney, Palmer, Fox, Neilson, Preston all out of contract who are in and around the first team squad this season.

 

We have Jones, Westwood, Abdi, Matias, Hooper. Lee, Boyd all out of the team 3 are injured the rest are not wanted so why is Westwood, Abdi, Jones, Boyd still at the club I find it hard to believe not one single club wanted Westwood. The policy seem to be lets let their contracts run down and they can leave at the end of the season but the job of the person in charge of the players contracts and squad is to try and shift the players that the manager does not want - not doing a particular great job is she.

 

Putting is in perspective Westwood, Jones, Matias, Boyd being allowed to sit in the stands and waiting for their contract to be up instead of trying to loan them out or even better sell them or mutually release from their contracts will end up costing us at least £5m in wages - we could give 10,000 fans a free shirt for the money we are wasting in salaries.

 

So you tell me who do you think is not doing the job they are paid for.

 

[bdmfournil]

Has it occurred to you, the wages these players are on might be prohibiting a move.

Jones and Boyd were free transfers, because of the wages. Abdi, Hooper and Lee

are all long term injured.  Westwood will also be on high wages. Matias is part of

first team plans obviously and only picked up an injury three matches ago.

I fail to see where it is justifiable to sack anybody based on any of the above players situations.

[jonesy87shef]

On 17/10/2018 at 08:25, Bluesteel said:

 

There’s a difference as Taylor played nearly 100 times for Leeds before moving which meant he was moving as an established player rather than someone on the fringes. Not suggesting Penney will never do that.

 

Kiwomya did ok financially but there’s also the unknown of where might he be had he proven himself in a first team somewhere. Penney has a great platform to build his career here in the short term, there are fewer uncertainties with staying as there are in moving and if he is on a first team wage here then that will not be insignificant.

 

There are always exceptions to the rule either way, usually ones who are not good enough such as Mowatt who hasn’t kept it up. But generally speaking these players disappear into a reserve side for a few years, end up on loan in the champ and then back to the championship permanently. Patrick Bamford left Forest and no doubt earnt a few quid but he’s gone around the houses a bit. I think it just depends if maximum earnings is the be all and end all in the short term.

 

Well that’s my point. He could go on to establish himself as a prem player. He could go the way if others where he can’t keep up his performances and drops down the leagues.

 

That’s why from my point of view you go for that payday. Secure your future, work hard and hopefully make it at the top level. If not no shame in dropping back down on loan or full transfer and you have the extra money.

 

Thats unless of course the club you’re at gives you a fantastic contract.

 

As stated in other posts I just wish we’d tie the more promising youngsters to longer term deals. The pros outweigh the benefits. I know your not stating otherwise btw, just wanted to add that.

[Sonny]

14 minutes ago, room0035 said:

No say what so ever if he did we would have sign a lot more players up.

 

Karen was brought in to sort the contracts and the transfers, she didn't do very well with Hirst or Clare though I think the problem with Hirst was the Chairman.

 

A football club lives and dies on their back room staff, the megastore will success or fail based on the ability of the marketing and the manager to entice customers in, the pitch if maintained well will aid the players but the playing and coaching staff can not dictate whether the ground staff are any good only actions can. 

 

The same goes for those looking after the players contract we are led to believe by the club its the lass from Charlton since she has been here we lost all the players out of contract from last season other than giving Nuihu a new deal and the crock Pudil a new deal, this season we have 13 first team squad players out of contracts we have resigned Bannan and Joao - we have Penney, Palmer, Fox, Neilson, Preston all out of contract who are in and around the first team squad this season.

 

We have Jones, Westwood, Abdi, Matias, Hooper. Lee, Boyd all out of the team 3 are injured the rest are not wanted so why is Westwood, Abdi, Jones, Boyd still at the club I find it hard to believe not one single club wanted Westwood. The policy seem to be lets let their contracts run down and they can leave at the end of the season but the job of the person in charge of the players contracts and squad is to try and shift the players that the manager does not want - not doing a particular great job is she.

 

Putting is in perspective Westwood, Jones, Matias, Boyd being allowed to sit in the stands and waiting for their contract to be up instead of trying to loan them out or even better sell them or mutually release from their contracts will end up costing us at least £5m in wages - we could give 10,000 fans a free shirt for the money we are wasting in salaries.

 

So you tell me who do you think is not doing the job they are paid for.

 

 

As ever, your detailed knowledge of behind the scenes information is much appreciated. Whoever your source is, thanks for sharing it.

[Sonny]

The policy you highlight of letting expensive players sit doing nothing until their contracts run out without trying to sell/loan them is bonkers. So bonkers it almost doesn’t make sense but at least we now know.

[Hookowl]

14 minutes ago, Sonny said:

The policy you highlight of letting expensive players sit doing nothing until their contracts run out without trying to sell/loan them is bonkers. So bonkers it almost doesn’t make sense but at least we now know.

 

I don't think for a minute that we haven't tried to sell/loan certain players taking into account our P&S problems.

I would say (as others have previously) that it's more a case of other clubs don't want them due to prohibitive wages etc.

 

With regards to "at least we now know" I'm not sure how you arrive at that conclusion ?

I may be wrong but I can't recall any statement from the club that would support this.

[Inspector Lestrade]

12 minutes ago, Sonny said:

 

As ever, your detailed knowledge of behind the scenes information is much appreciated. Whoever your source is, thanks for sharing it.

 

 

I thought he was stating the obvious but overlooks the fact that the players don't have to leave until their contracts are up.  Clubs might well have come in for Westwood (and the others) and it's possible that he declined the offers.  I'm sure talks are ongoing with the player's representatives and that players will be leaving (or resigning) closer the date approaches.  

 

The club is paying for the fact that they ended up planning for a quick promotion and are now stuck with players who they would have released from their contracts had we gone up.  The summer will see players leave.   A bit more patience is required from the fans. (I know, I know)

 

And MM is gonna be awesome especially if he stops bloody defending.

[room0035]

26 minutes ago, Sonny said:

 

As ever, your detailed knowledge of behind the scenes information is much appreciated. Whoever your source is, thanks for sharing it.

I cannot tell for fear of repercussions for him but all I will say is he is on the currently first team playing staff 

[room0035]

3 minutes ago, Mycroft said:

 

I thought he was stating the obvious but overlooks the fact that the players don't have to leave until their contracts are up.  Clubs might well have come in for Westwood (and the others) and it's possible that he declined the offers.  I'm sure talks are ongoing with the player's representatives and that players will be leaving (or resigning) closer the date approaches.  

 

The club is paying for the fact that they ended up planning for a quick promotion and are now stuck with players who they would have released from their contracts had we gone up.  The summer will see players leave.   A bit more patience is required from the fans. (I know, I know)

 

And MM is gonna be awesome especially if he stops bloody defending.

Understand where your coming from but who is MM - Marco Matias??? as it seems to have gone quiet about his 2 weeks injury so don't know if he is fit or not.

 

Bring back the injuries section of the owls website giving weekly updates on where the players are on the road the recovery.