Beholder Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) OK we have promoted a number of young players this season but whether they are yet good enough is another matter. The usual route for youth players is to get some consistent games on loan at the level below, prove themselves to be too good for that level before getting a crack at championship level football. Who out of ours has done that? Thorniley. The rest need experience and to prove themselves first. Baker isn't ready. In fact on Sundays performance he is way behind Palmer. Frazer Preston should not be in front of Dave Jones or Boyd. It was foolish to throw him into that situation in my opinion. Same goes for Penny. I just feel the state we are in will not do any favours to our kids by chucking them in at the deep end. Edited August 20, 2018 by Beholder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgmetcalf Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Yeah but a couple of years fans have been screaming give the youngsters a go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanye West Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I'm all for having youngsters in the team. But, we've gone from having a few in the side to help them and see how they get on, to almost relying on them completely. Yesterday we had Dawson, Baker, Thorniley, Kirby, Preston, Lee, Penney all in the matchday squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 We have had to throw too many in too soon because of Chansiri leading us into an embargo. What's happening at the minute could destroy these young lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birley Owl 1867 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) Playing them now may damage them long term. Personally only think Thorniley is ready for regular step up. In a back 2 partnership with Lees. Bring them off the bench at times. The occasional starts too. But we can't rely on them. Edited August 20, 2018 by Birley Owl 1867 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Owl 2 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 So Palmer, Fox,Boyd etc get slated to the hilt. The youngsters ignored under Carlos get game time. Yet its spun into a negative. He can't win here 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTacoSWFC Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, S36 OWL said: We have had to throw too many in too soon because of Chansiri leading us into an embargo. What's happening at the minute could destroy these young lads. Make them or break them... not much choice at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarn owl Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Too early to say that they are not ready. I have seen lots of positives in Baker and i think he needs to be given time to grow. I think he is in front of Palmer and about same level as Hunt. Hunt had lots of bad days too. Calling for Jones or Boyd seems like Grass is always greener to me. They are not the solution. We need to give the kids time. We were going to lose at Brentford regardless of the team. Lets see how we do with these 2 home games instead. Keep playing the kids, don't just sign a name to play. Look at how much of a waste our loan signings have been before (Butterfield). They are not the answer. Play the kids. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, MrTacoSWFC said: Make them or break them... not much choice at the moment. Just got to hope it dosnt break them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew6666 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 The 'youngsters' arent the problem - its the wage stealing senior players that are sat on large contracts and not pulling their weight which is an issue. We are too quick to say these young lads havent had the best of games but sit back and wait on Abdi's or Matias's potential to kick in. Stick with the kids and give them experience IMO, I would rather see a kid trying his heart out than a bumbling senior player just going through the motions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beholder Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Belfast Owl 2 said: So Palmer, Fox,Boyd etc get slated to the hilt. The youngsters ignored under Carlos get game time. Yet its spun into a negative. He can't win here The slating of Palmer Jones and fox on here is wrong and misplaced. And boyd hasn't turned into a lesser player than unproven youngsters overnight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTacoSWFC Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 We have no money.. Players we wasted money on (not all) haven't played well or been injured... We have been umbongoed... Only hope maybe a few loans can be made.. if not at the moment we have to play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Reminds me very much of when we chucked the likes of Beevers, Spurr and McAllister in. Absolutely destroyed their confidence. Pray we don't do the same to these young lads when it inevitably gets toxic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTacoSWFC Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Beholder said: The slating of Palmer Jones and fox on here is wrong and misplaced. And boyd hasn't turned into a lesser player than unproven youngsters overnight. I think Palmer has been ok.. just some fan can't wait for any excuse to slate someone 24/7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleblue Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Playing one or two at a time maybe, not having four or five in a game at same time, this is too much, yesterday we had Dawson, Baker, Thorniley, Penney, Preston, too many youngsters at once, that alongside the likes of inexperienced player like pellupesy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyTrev Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 The phrase "sink or swim" springs to mind. There's not a football fan in the country that doesn't want to see local lads coming through the ranks and breaking into the first team but it has to be done in a more measured way, you can't just start throwing them into a struggling team and hope they hit the ground running. Ideally I'd have liked to have seen them all getting some time out on loan before being promoted to the first team, it didn't do Thornley and Clare any harm. At the moment I'm getting a little concerned that we've been here before with the likes of Quinn, Haslam, Craine, Geary, Morrison, Hamshaw and Stringer. Let's hope we don't end up with the same outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulcinella Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Unless we get loans in, we've got what we've got. We've got to trust that JL chooses the quality of the players he currently has for the team. Thus far, this season, pretty much everyone has been slammed on OwlsTalk. The manager, the chairman, the senior players, the youth players. We have what we have and we have to live with it. Moving on... I have no idea whether it's better to include Boyd, Jones, Fox, Palmer in the squad or play youth. I just have to trust JL has a better idea than me - because he's the manager and he assesses them in training. When JL started with SWFC, he first stabilised the results (nothing spectacular but we stopped losing), then as players came back the results improved immensely. That suggests to me that he's no idiot - he identifies issues and seeks to fix them. Sometimes the fixes work, sometime they don't. But you can't blame someone for trying to fix things. The youth are being thrown into the deep end. Fair enough. Those that can will swim. Our squad is woefully thin - most so in defence, though also in midfield. We need some of those youth players to come good. They can only do so if they get opportunities. Best thing we can do is get behind the team. Give them confidence even when they don't deserve it. We don't have an option. Well we do... we don't get behind the team, complain a lot, make them worse, get relegated. It's backs against the walls time. Above I said that everyone has been slammed on OwlsTalk. We should be complaining about our own attitude. I don't think we're helping the club at the moment. We're kicking the team when they're down. If we had resources it'd be a different thing. But we're not even in a transfer window now. Just a loans window. And none of us truly know how much money we have without going back into embargo mode. Just get behind the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semedo's ferret Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Non are a top 6 team championship player. Non will be that bit special and achieve anything more than Morgan Fox or Liam Palmer at this level. Being so reliant on them is why we're in the mire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.. Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I don't think they're being promoted too soon, I think they're being promoted into a team that's weak on tactical instruction, lack of shape and role instruction, the senior players are being played out of position with no idea what they should be doing and when, sort that and the kids will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minton Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) Unfortunately this is a bit of a 'I told you so' post, but this is something I've posted about on here before: On 24/03/2017 at 13:15, Minton said: For many years our youth setup was neglected and almost as important, so was our scouting network. When Milan came in, we had 1 scout... We've been addressing both issues, so hopefully we can start to bring a few more young prospects into our academy (the two young Bulgarian lads are a good example of this). Makes me wonder how many talents have slipped through our fingers over the years and been picked up by the grunters, Leeds, etc Players like Penny, Hirst, Jack Lee, Connor O'Grady and Dawson are hopefully the start of our youth setup starting to bring players through to our first team again. The other thing to remember is that players don't always reach the heights expected or develop as coaches hope. Sometimes only time can tell. On 11/12/2014 at 12:12, Minton said: Look at his build and then compare him to defenders like Lees and Loovens. He'd get eaten for breakfast by most championship defences, I agree he needs some time on loan at a L1 club, but more than anything, he needs time to develop his physique and power. Ronaldo was demolished when he first moved to manure, but a couple of years of development and he became athletically frightening. Same goes for Bale. Oxlaide-Chamberlain is scaring defences at 18-19 because he's already a beast. For me, same goes for Betra. Keep them delevoping and then unleash them once they've got more power and experience. Chucking them into a 1st team game and destroying their confidence won't do anything to help them. I'm all for promoting youth players, but if they aren't quite there yet with their development, it's a surefire way to ruin a young player. Edited August 20, 2018 by Minton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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