Etchesketch Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 9 hours ago, David Somni Jennings said: You are talking about 18-20 year olds, it's highly likely they are readers of these type of forums, and seeing a thread like this come up could impact their confidence. To be fair Dawson is 23 and Baker and Thorniley just about 22 and these are the three that people are talking most about. They should be mature enough by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socialist_Owl Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 43 minutes ago, FreshOwl said: The majority of youngsters are ONLY a few games into their senior careers ffs, at a high standard. Lets see how they get on over the next few months Thank you. FFS, the reactionary nonsense here knows no flipping bounds. These kids aren't fragile teacups. Some will make the grade, some won't. An asskicking delivered by one of the better squads in the league won't change a thing in terms of their development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Nick Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 About time for a year of experience with the Club and Squad which they are intended to be a part of, some will sink, some will swim. We keep the swimmers. Why loan them out? Don't know how they'll be when they come back, if they come back, because all that time was spent elsewhere with different coaches, players, tactics, and maybe even in a lower League, what an insult, your childhood Club loans you out to a League that isn't as good as the Academy whence you came... Yes, the 'kids' have to step up, but at this stage in their career, it's now or probably never. This season is not lost, it's just started, so cheer up, anything can happen, and will happen. There will be many surprises this season, both good & bad, but in the end, SWFC will hold their own, maybe make the playoffs, and on a longshot, win it outright. Just another season in probably the most competitive Tier in the English Football hierarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philb125 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 13 hours ago, 2roland2 said: Ogrady and borokov look the only ones even close to ready imo Based on what? I mean Dawson & Wildsmith surely are worthy of a starting spot in this league. Thornley too, Baker I'd suggest is no worse than Palmer... Jury out on Penney/Preston?Kirby et co as I haven't seen them in this league enough to judge but the two you mention havn't unless I missed it even been tried at this level? So I'm really curious, how do you form that opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philb125 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 21 minutes ago, 2roland2 said: Well we have no choice now do we, we should be doing what all sensible clubs who know how to bring youth in do and loans them out for experience first but not us ohhhhhhhhh no, we know better get them thrown in when they aren’t ready and hope for the best. It’s football genius as usual Ah now I'm starting to get a sense for your 'but Ted says' logic.... You say that all sensible clubs use the loan system, this is fallacy - it happens sometimes. But not as often as you'd believe. If you look through all clubs you'll find a mix of how players are developed and in recent years since the changes in loan rules, more so are not being loaned out. That is because nowadays you don't have one month loans in league football, only window to window loans. That means if you loan a player out in week 1 of season, week 2 manager changes, player could be stuffed like Penney last year was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUMBELOWS91 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 On 20/08/2018 at 11:46, Beholder said: OK we have promoted a number of young players this season but whether they are yet good enough is another matter. The usual route for youth players is to get some consistent games on loan at the level below, prove themselves to be too good for that level before getting a crack at championship level football. Who out of ours has done that? Thorniley. The rest need experience and to prove themselves first. Baker isn't ready. In fact on Sundays performance he is way behind Palmer. Frazer Preston should not be in front of Dave Jones or Boyd. It was foolish to throw him into that situation in my opinion. Same goes for Penny. I just feel the state we are in will not do any favours to our kids by chucking them in at the deep end. I would agree re Thorniley and Baker. Don't want to keep going on about Baker because I've made the point in several threads but I just don't see what some are saying they see Slightly disagree re Preston as I'm really optimistic about him. Would love to see him play in a side with a bit of confidence. Penney- I like what I've seen (not loads) and i'd give him a go, mainly because our other options are awful. There's a player in Kirby, but it wouldn't be good for him to be thrown in yet. Nielsen just looks a lump to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james o connor Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 It’s too early to say with any of them. It’s probably a bit much chucking them all in but that’s the desperate situation we find ourselves in due to the inept running of the club . When fans are being ripped off and fed lie after lie and have to watch the club be run into the ground , they are inevitably going to get frustrated. Unfortunately that means those on the pitch get most of the flack instead of the real problem, chansiri and his bunch of fellow failures . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Neon Nick said: About time for a year of experience with the Club and Squad which they are intended to be a part of, some will sink, some will swim. We keep the swimmers. Why loan them out? Don't know how they'll be when they come back, if they come back, because all that time was spent elsewhere with different coaches, players, tactics, and maybe even in a lower League, what an insult, your childhood Club loans you out to a League that isn't as good as the Academy whence you came... Yes, the 'kids' have to step up, but at this stage in their career, it's now or probably never. This season is not lost, it's just started, so cheer up, anything can happen, and will happen. There will be many surprises this season, both good & bad, but in the end, SWFC will hold their own, maybe make the playoffs, and on a longshot, win it outright. Just another season in probably the most competitive Tier in the English Football hierarchy. My reasoning for being a little bit more apprehensive about introducing so many of them, is not because I think they are too young I’m a firm believer in that old cliche of, if you’re good enough, you’re old enough. Min my opinion, most are not yet good enough. Not good enough for where we want to be right now It’s correct to say they are not callow youths, but from what I’ve seen, only the two keepers could be deemed ready for regular championship football Either use them sparingly, as back players, or if we think they need regular game time, ship them out on loan Its standard procedure, we hone the skills of top Premiership youngsters, while sending our own hopefuls out to lower league clubs Yes I take your point that we don’t see them day to day, working with our own, although presumably they have been training with the squad for a while These days, it’s feasible to see every minute of their performances while out on loan anyway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowbelly Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 The only thing that’s going to break these players is the fans getting on their backs. So stop moaning about Jos ruining their confidence & start encouraging them by not ruining their confidence. Our attitude to them determines their attitude to playing for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, Yellowbelly said: The only thing that’s going to break these players is the fans getting on their backs. So stop moaning about Jos ruining their confidence & start encouraging them by not ruining their confidence. Our attitude to them determines their attitude to playing for us. Agreed, but nobody’s confidence will be up at the moment, we are playing awful, and are in the bottom three It isn’t where anyone expected us to be, so there is bound to be unrest If we don’t think the youngsters can deal with that pressure, then take them out of the firing line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beholder Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Yellowbelly said: The only thing that’s going to break these players is the fans getting on their backs. So stop moaning about Jos ruining their confidence & start encouraging them by not ruining their confidence. Our attitude to them determines their attitude to playing for us. I think its best to introduce young players into a team that is on top, at a level that is not beyond their current capability. The level of opposition of Brentford far surpassed the kind of opposition those players are used to. That exposed all their dificiencies and can strip them of confidence really quickly. Its nothing to do with fans or threads on message boards. Edited August 22, 2018 by Beholder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ka58 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Part of the problem is the lack of reserve team football these days. They just don't look ready yet they're in their early 20's. To be honest - and I'm hopeful this will change - for me none of Baker, Kirby, Hunt, Lee, Preston, Neilsen look anywhere near ready for Championship football. Thorniley I think looks promising but should only be back up at this stage, Penney might give us a surprise as I think he looks the most composed out of the lot of them on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Generally agree we shouldn’t blood too many if they’re not ready and I am unsure on baker. But Fraser Preston is a different player to jones and looked lively, a potential find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 On 20/08/2018 at 22:47, gurujuan said: I agree, but we have enough seasoned talent, to mount a promotion challenge. The squad is unbalanced, but that can be remedied by shrewd use of the loan market. All clubs do it, we need to. One of the issues I have with the current batch of youngsters, not many of those youngsters address our real shortcomings Where I’d be happy to see them used, is, as back up, in place of some of our squad players who are no longer of the required standard. Other than the keepers, none are ready to hold down a regular first team place. By the sounds of it, our scope to use the loan market extends to a single defender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 58 minutes ago, Bluesteel said: By the sounds of it, our scope to use the loan market extends to a single defender That is crazy, and yet we are prepared to freeze out certain players on big wages If Westwood, Jones, or even Winnall don’t feature in our plans, then loan them out. That alone would allow us to bring in our full quota of 5 loans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 39 minutes ago, gurujuan said: That is crazy, and yet we are prepared to freeze out certain players on big wages If Westwood, Jones, or even Winnall don’t feature in our plans, then loan them out. That alone would allow us to bring in our full quota of 5 loans We would need takers and there arent any, particularly as Winnall is injured. If we need to cut costs it’s not a case of simply replacing those lost with 5 others is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 It’s that age old question? The only way they get experience is by playing. Unfortunately the current situation is not the ideal one for learning your trade particularly in front of all the Statler and Waldorf’s that go to Hillsborough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowbelly Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said: It’s that age old question? The only way they get experience is by playing. Unfortunately the current situation is not the ideal one for learning your trade particularly in front of all the Statler and Waldorf’s that go to Hillsborough. They just need to show some Kermit-ment. Haha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beholder Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 Penny has been brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 22 minutes ago, Beholder said: Penny has been brilliant. Penney has been good so far, less so, Thornley and Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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