Promoting youth players too soon.

[1867Heaven]

27 minutes ago, Beholder said:

OK we have promoted a number of young players this season but whether they are yet good enough is another matter. 

 

The usual route for youth players is to get some consistent games on loan at the level below, prove themselves to be too good for that level before getting a crack at championship level football. 

 

Who out of ours has done that? 

 

Thorniley. 

 

The rest need experience and to prove themselves first. Baker isn't ready. In fact on Sundays performance he is way behind Palmer. 

 

Frazer Preston should not be in front of Dave Jones or Boyd. It was foolish to throw him into that situation in my opinion. Same goes for Penny. 

 

I just feel the state we are in will not do any favours to our kids by chucking them in at the deep end. 

 

 

Each needs to be treated differently, Penney went out on loan twice so does he have more experience of being around a first team? Nielsen seems to have the physical attributes and I agree on Throrniley but ultimately we need to trust Jos' opinions on each individual player.

[Jon Newsome]

So for many years our muppet fans have moaned we aren't giving them a chance, we finally give them a chance and they aren't ready. Couldn't write it. 

[Lord Snooty]

 

Obviously there are environements and conditions that are better suited to young players than others.

 

Personally I have been delighted to see them come through.

And truth be told, if using so many of them means we finish just above the drop zone then so be it.

 

From 7th to 21st is all the same really.

 

[Whatahoot]

30 minutes ago, Birley Owl 1867 said:

Playing them now may damage them long term.

 

Personally only think Thorniley is ready for regular step up. In a back 2 partnership with Lees.

 

Bring them off the bench at times. The occasional starts too. But we can't rely on them.

The only thing that might damage them is our fans continual calling for incoming loans in all sorts of unnecessary positions. It will not do the youngsters confidence and spirit any good. We need to give them a fair chance, not just a couple of games.We do need just a couple of loans in, yes, but not every man and his dog. We have some really good prospects in our younger ranks and fans are running a real risk of ruining them.

We cannot afford to splash the cash any more, we need to get used to that. We need to be much more patient too. With a couple of well thought out loans now, resigning the players we need to keep and releasing the deadwood is where we are at .With the likes of Hooper, Joao,Winnall and hopefully Lee returning soon, we shall be ok. I agree that Thornley should develop into a very useful player for us, but he , like the others, needs fans support and not criticism.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Whatahoot

[matt_johno43]

Thorniley has looked good on every outting I have seen of his. Wolves away last year he was brilliant. Preston put himself about yesterday but spent much of his 45 mins chasing shadows. Palmer over Baker. Im sorry but this is absoloutle nonsense. If we are going to tread water this year I would rather do so whilst letting a 21 year old right back get 20-30 games under his belt learnning the league and testing himself against the best this division has to offer. I do not mind rotation but Baker has to be the preffered choice as by the end of the season the club will know wether he is good enough or not, IMO we know Palmer is not so lets give the 21 year old kid more than 5 games with a different back 4/5 every game before making a judgement. 

[Philb125]

42 minutes ago, Beholder said:

OK we have promoted a number of young players this season but whether they are yet good enough is another matter. 

 

The usual route for youth players is to get some consistent games on loan at the level below, prove themselves to be too good for that level before getting a crack at championship level football. 

 

Who out of ours has done that? 

 

Thorniley. 

 

The rest need experience and to prove themselves first. Baker isn't ready. In fact on Sundays performance he is way behind Palmer. 

 

Frazer Preston should not be in front of Dave Jones or Boyd. It was foolish to throw him into that situation in my opinion. Same goes for Penny. 

 

I just feel the state we are in will not do any favours to our kids by chucking them in at the deep end. 

 

 

 

You keep banging this Baker showed he’s not ready on Sunday drum but I’m not really sure why? What did he or didn’t he do that was so wrong in you’re mind? 

 

Im asking as the stats show he made more tackles, clearances or interceptions than any other player in our team. He had a chance to score, he was marking one of the better, quicker forwards in the league and I think it’s his 3rd or 4th competitive start. 

 

Can’t see why you’d be singling him out in a performance where many ‘better’ players were no better and if stats to be believed actually were worse. 

[bigash_swfc]

I just don't understand how they can be deemed not good enough.

 

For example Penney and Baker, wingbacks. No support in front or behind. Nearest player eitherside is Matias and Pelupessy. 

 

Penney and Baker did very well in my eyes. Preston was closing down tirelessly. 

 

It took Adam Reach a year to bed in. Most of you lot won't give them 90 minutes against top 6 contenders. Grow up

Edited August 20, 2018 by bigash_swfc

[Jim]

Play the kids, don’t play the kids. Just another example of a divided fanbase which is what we’ll always be 

[Beholder]

18 minutes ago, bigash_swfc said:

I just don't understand how they can be deemed not good enough.

 

For example Penney and Baker, wingbacks. No support in front or behind. Nearest player eitherside is Matias and Pelupessy. 

 

Penney and Baker did very well in my eyes. Preston was closing down tirelessly. 

 

It took Adam Reach a year to bed in. Most of you lot won't give them 90 minutes against top 6 contenders. Grow up

 

Its a thread created for debate and opinions. It gave you the opportunity to spout yours. I doubt there is anyone in your immediate vicinity who wants to hear it. So instead of telling people to grow up, maybe you should be thankful we are here to read it. 

 

And in my opinion, none of them look ready for the championship apart from Thorniley and the keepers. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Beholder

[Woodie]

It was literally men against boys yesterday. Easily could have been 5. We created nothing , no link between the front 3 and the rest of the team, apart from the odd lucky punt upfront. We aren’t capable of keeping hold of the ball in midfield and defence and we look very uncomfortable in possession excluding Bannan. Trying to play out from the back with the defenders at our disposal is criminal, we got totally out played. I’m all for blooding in youngsters but to just throw them in like he is doing will get us nowhere, you don’t win games with half a team of kids not at this level, all it will do is destroy a kids confidence. You can’t tell me the 6 or 7 kids we have included in the squads are good enough to play at championship level when not one has proved there worth in any single division in the football league on loan? Penney couldnt get on the bench for Bradford, the others only experience is in our u23s and it’s compeltly different .We are in big trouble, people knew this during pre season and got laughed off. Hutch didn’t have his best of games Saturday but to drag him at half time and put Preston on, for a full league debut while 1-0 down away, who was out of position may I add, it just doesn’t make sense, while Pelupessy was allowed to amble around for another 45 mins.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Woodie

[swfctc1]

1 hour ago, Beholder said:

OK we have promoted a number of young players this season but whether they are yet good enough is another matter. 

 

The usual route for youth players is to get some consistent games on loan at the level below, prove themselves to be too good for that level before getting a crack at championship level football. 

 

Who out of ours has done that? 

 

Thorniley. 

 

The rest need experience and to prove themselves first. Baker isn't ready. In fact on Sundays performance he is way behind Palmer. 

 

Frazer Preston should not be in front of Dave Jones or Boyd. It was foolish to throw him into that situation in my opinion. Same goes for Penny. 

 

I just feel the state we are in will not do any favours to our kids by chucking them in at the deep end. 

 

 

You don’t win anything with kids !! Is a phrase I can recall 

[SiJ]

I think we are throwing in far too many at once. 

 

One or two at a time, not six or seven.

 

There's a huge step up from youth team football to senior. 

 

This isn't the class of 92 ffs.

 

We could end up ruining them if we are not careful. 

[jp1981]

1 hour ago, Beholder said:

OK we have promoted a number of young players this season but whether they are yet good enough is another matter. 

 

The usual route for youth players is to get some consistent games on loan at the level below, prove themselves to be too good for that level before getting a crack at championship level football. 

 

Who out of ours has done that? 

 

Thorniley. 

 

The rest need experience and to prove themselves first. Baker isn't ready. In fact on Sundays performance he is way behind Palmer. 

 

Frazer Preston should not be in front of Dave Jones or Boyd. It was foolish to throw him into that situation in my opinion. Same goes for Penny. 

 

I just feel the state we are in will not do any favours to our kids by chucking them in at the deep end. 

 

 

If you don't give them a go, how will we know?

[Beholder]

3 minutes ago, jp1981 said:

If you don't give them a go, how will we know?

By them going out on loan and proving themselves there. 

 

There is a developmental gap that needs to be crossed before they go into our first team. 

 

I think that gap is often too big apart from in exceptional cases for them to be expected to be champ standard immediately. . 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Beholder

[SiJ]

9 minutes ago, jp1981 said:

If you don't give them a go, how will we know?

Converseley, if you throw them into this sort of a situation, are you really giving them the best chance of suceeding.

 

It's not exactly a great environment for them to develop into first team footballers is it?

 

I felt sorry for Baker, Preston and co yesterday. Owerawed by a very good team and very few of the senior pros stepping up and taking responsiblity (Bannan aside).

[Beholder]

21 minutes ago, Woodie said:

It was literally men against boys yesterday. Easily could have been 5. We created nothing , no link between the front 3 and the rest of the team, apart from the odd lucky punt upfront. We aren’t capable of keeping hold of the ball in midfield and defence and we look very uncomfortable in possession excluding Bannan. Trying to play out from the back with the defenders at our disposal is criminal, we got totally out played. I’m all for blooding in youngsters but to just throw them in like he is doing will get us nowhere, you don’t win games with half a team of kids not at this level, all it will do is destroy a kids confidence. You can’t tell me the 6 or 7 kids we have included in the squads are good enough to play at championship level when not one has proved there worth in any single division in the football league on loan? Penney couldnt get on the bench for Bradford, the others only experience is in our u23s and it’s compeltly different .We are in big trouble, people knew this during pre season and got laughed off. Hutch didn’t have his best of games Saturday but to drag him at half time and put Preston on, for a full league debut while 1-0 down away, who was out of position may I add, it just doesn’t make sense, while Pelupessy was allowed to amble around for another 45 mins.

Spot on. Especially the last bit about dragging hutch off. 

 

It was really bad for Hutch and it didn't help Preston or the team. 

[SiJ]

Plus...we must be flipped at the moment, because I'm agreeing with Beholder on the vast majority of things right now

[Roy Of The Roasters]

1 hour ago, MrTacoSWFC said:

We have no money..

Players we wasted money on (not all) haven't played well or been injured...

We have been umbongoed...

 

 

Only hope maybe a few loans can be made.. if not at the moment we have to play them.

 

 

That’s the absolute truth. Get used to it, because we’re going to see more of them. I don’t know how many of us have actually thought through the implications of the transfer embargo being lifted, but it’s a safe bet that there were strings attached. So don’t expect the cash to be splashed anytime soon. At best, we’re almost certainly having to work under a strict budget, at worst we might have to sell more players. Either way, we’re going to need several of the youngsters to step up. And we don’t have the luxury of being able to blend them in gradually – the time for that was a few seasons ago (another example of mismanagement) so we need to support and encourage them rather than trash them every time they have a difficult game.

[Ian]

1 hour ago, Beholder said:

 

The usual route for youth players is to get some consistent games on loan at the level below, prove themselves to be too good for that level before getting a crack at championship level football. 

 

 

That's a myth and definitely not the "usual route"....the vast majority just come through their own youth levels and then step up

 

What is unusual is the way we had 5 players yesterday who were playing youth team football just a few years ago

[Swiss Toni]

The reality is that one (maybe two) of our development kids will be good enough for the first team every year or two. To expect 5 or 6 to be near to first team Championship football right now is too much expectation and probably only Thorniley is ready for that this year.

 

In a year or so the likes of Baker, Stobbs, Penney, Nielsen and a couple of others will probably not even still be at the club and will have gone down a rung on the ladder.