Pulcinella Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Junk Smuggler said: The reality is that one (maybe two) of our development kids will be good enough for the first team every year or two. To expect 5 or 6 to be near to first team Championship football right now is too much expectation and probably only Thorniley is ready for that this year. In a year or so the likes of Baker, Stobbs, Penney, Nielsen and a couple of others will probably not even still be at the club and will have gone down a rung on the ladder. Playing them makes them valuable though. Even if the fee is low, it's better that they're worth something. Or at least that's my tactic to raise money in Championship Manager when I take over in the first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I will agree with what Luhukay said after Brentford. Are problems are not becouse youngsters are underperforming, but becouse senior players are not doing as well as they should. Don't think that any of our youngvplayers hurt their first team chances with how they performed for the first team. It is far from ideal to have 5 of them on the pitch at the same, time, but playing 2 or 3 in a team where senior players are set right, and giving their all can only be good for us. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low Flying Owl Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I wish all of our younger players the very best but anyone who thinks Thorniley is better than the other youngsters cannot be basing this on yesterday's performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Low Flying Owl said: I wish all of our younger players the very best but anyone who thinks Thorniley is better than the other youngsters cannot be basing this on yesterday's performance. Thing is that Thorniley is not a left back, but a center back. He doesn't have a skillset, doesn't understand the role, and lacks pace to play there. Still he did well enough whenbplayed at center back. Nowhere near the most talented youngster in our squad, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birley Owl 1867 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Thorniley needs to be paired at CB with Lees. In a back 2. That's how we'll get the best out of him and Lees this season. Back 3 doesn't suit either of them. The other youngsters can have cameos off the bench. Too much expectation right now coupled with a relegation fight will turn them into the next Rocky Lekaj's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Beholder said: OK we have promoted a number of young players this season but whether they are yet good enough is another matter. The usual route for youth players is to get some consistent games on loan at the level below, prove themselves to be too good for that level before getting a crack at championship level football. Who out of ours has done that? Thorniley. The rest need experience and to prove themselves first. Baker isn't ready. In fact on Sundays performance he is way behind Palmer. Frazer Preston should not be in front of Dave Jones or Boyd. It was foolish to throw him into that situation in my opinion. Same goes for Penny. I just feel the state we are in will not do any favours to our kids by chucking them in at the deep end. This is something I’ve mentioned The odd cameo role is all that we should be using them for at the moment Theyare not yet good enough, or consistent enough, for Championship football Meanwhile, our U23s were brought back down to earth, losing 5-0 to Bristol City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakey1959 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said: Reminds me very much of when we chucked the likes of Beevers, Spurr and McAllister in. Absolutely destroyed their confidence. Pray we don't do the same to these young lads when it inevitably gets toxic Spurr did well to play nearly 200 games for us with no confidence and I’m pretty sure beevers played a similar amount it was the boo boys and the scapegoat seekers that destroyed their Wednesday careers not being chucked into the 1st team Edited August 20, 2018 by blakey1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handworth52 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 to be honest not many of our young players are ready and the worst thing is to put them into a toxic environment , some of the kids look 15 why ruin them? surely when they are ready loan them out to league 1/2 they need experience 1st . all the top players have learned there trade on loan to lower league teams ie harry kane . id say only thornily and dawson are ready . id like to see the big lad nielson loaned out to league 1 for season ,he could be a rite defender for us in future , Kirby also looks promising , the other lads its way too soon ,why ruin there careers ,what other clubs would do that? most loan these lads out ,would do them loads of good . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Toni Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Birley Owl 1867 said: Thorniley needs to be paired at CB with Lees. In a back 2. That's how we'll get the best out of him and Lees this season. Back 3 doesn't suit either of them. The other youngsters can have cameos off the bench. Too much expectation right now coupled with a relegation fight will turn them into the next Rocky Lekaj's Thing is at the minute, Lees needs to focus on his own game, not be looking after someone else or a RB on his other side too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 The only one of the youngsters who has ever looked anything special at this level, was Clare, and that was only in one game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 But then again, they are taking places of players who didn't look good enough at this level for long time. Perhaps youngster getting picked ahead of them will give them much needed kick up the ar*e. Said it last season, and will again. As unexperienced as he is, Matt Penney is the best lb/lwb at the club. For me looked quite promissing in time he was given so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingOwl Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Penney came on yesterday and within a few mins put in the best cross of the game. Looks a natural wing back (however I still wanna do away with the wing back formation anyway) i wouldnt mind seeing more of him. Thorniley is a better centre half than full back. Preston looked eager and keen when he came on and showed good touches. Managed well and a few youngsters could really lift the squad. I just think we’ll fail at the managed well part of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, FlyingOwl said: Penney came on yesterday and within a few mins put in the best cross of the game. Looks a natural wing back (however I still wanna do away with the wing back formation anyway) i wouldnt mind seeing more of him. Thorniley is a better centre half than full back. Preston looked eager and keen when he came on and showed good touches. Managed well and a few youngsters could really lift the squad. I just think we’ll fail at the managed well part of that. Right now Penney is only one who packs engine, skillset, pace and understanding of demands on the position needed to play lwb. Thorniley is a cb, doesn't resemble lwb or even lb, and simply isn't solution for that position. Don't think that Preston is quite ready very positive in his approach, always looks forward, and is never afraid "to try" doing something special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Toni Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I'm all for giving youth a chance but at the minute it's too many we are trying to bed in and with that come up and down performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarn owl Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 hours ago, 2roland2 said: Sorry it isn’t too early to say they are not ready. These youngsters are nowhere near ready for top half championship football and anyone at Brentford who had eyes could see that, the same at Sunderland. I am sure some of our youth will come good but atm they are simply not up to the standard we need to compete and if we continue down the line of playing thorniley and baker at the back we will end up in real danger of going down. Brentford didn’t have to break sweat and they could have scored 5 or 6. Btw the problem is much bigger than just the youngsters, atm we have huge problems. *we have a young keeper playing in a very inexperienced back line *, pudil wasn’t performing very well at his preferred position of full back and is even worse at centre half. *baker and thorniley are nowhere near top half championship players, I would say mid table to top top end league 1 and that’s being kind ( don’t mean to knock them they could come good long term but they simply do t have the skill set and or experience yet) *i might get knocked for this but lees isn’t the same player unless he’s got a player who knows the game inside out at his side (loovens type) * Hutchinson either didn’t look fit or was pissed off because he was miles off the pace and didn’t look interested *matias im not sure on because he was out for so long, he might be a great player once he’s picked up a few more games so will wait and see *bannan, we all know is class but he looks so frustrated and I can understand that playing next to pelupsey *pelupsey, well not sure what to say except I watched West Ham versus Bournemouth on the Saturday and I said at their game I haven’t seen a player so uninterested or poor in a long time as Anderson. Pelupsey made him look like ronaldo. , pelupsey is by far the most pointless player we have had in a Wednesday shirt in years and we have seen some shockers * forristeiri , feel so sorry for him, just like bannan so much better than our team and I just can’t see him and bannan putting up with this for much longer. * big Dave, well what can I say , I have backed him loads before and love him to bits for the effort and the love of our club but fizz me he is terrible, the Brentford fans couldn’t believe a 6ft 6 striker couldn’t head or hold up a ball, most of the Brentford fans said they were scared when they saw him upfront and thought he would cause havoc, well no he didn’t and won’t. I wanted to go over and tell him how much we loved him at the team coach but also tell him he was tug, it was like love and hate, maybe we could have him as a club man rather than a player after watching those two games I’m really not holding any hopes for anything other than a bottom 6/8 finish, even if lee and hooper come back it wouldn’t solve how poo we are at th back and our lack of creativity, we are 2 centre backs , 2 full backs and 2 wingers short of even maki g top 10 imo and quite obv we ain’t goi g to get that many players in if any at all. Long season ahead me thinks Lots of detail. Fair play. Comeback to me next week when we’ve won 2 games and Baker and Thorniley have 2 man of the match awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, tarn owl said: Lots of detail. Fair play. Comeback to me next week when we’ve won 2 games and Baker and Thorniley have 2 man of the match awards. Tricky to contact people in a parallel universe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Somni Jennings Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I'm all for playing the youngsters - Our older more experienced players weren't pulling up any trees, and several won't be at this club next season. As Jos said with the keepers, they are the future of the club, and so are the other young lads. What these young lads need is a LOT of support from the fans, they need to be brimming with confidence. They certainly don't need fans on their back after 45 minutes of their senior debut. I think some fans need to realise that this is not a promotion challenging season. This is a consolidation season, and if these young lads can get 20 games each under their belt at Championship level, then next season we could find we have several young and hungry lads, at a Championship level, without blowing £5m on each, and who wan't to play for this club for all the right reasons. It's risky of course, we could flirt with relegation if our more senior stars don't help to carry them, or our tactics are poor, but its a risk that could prove to be a masterstroke in the future 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, David Somni Jennings said: I'm all for playing the youngsters - Our older more experienced players weren't pulling up any trees, and several won't be at this club next season. As Jos said with the keepers, they are the future of the club, and so are the other young lads. What these young lads need is a LOT of support from the fans, they need to be brimming with confidence. They certainly don't need fans on their back after 45 minutes of their senior debut. I think some fans need to realise that this is not a promotion challenging season. This is a consolidation season, and if these young lads can get 20 games each under their belt at Championship level, then next season we could find we have several young and hungry lads, at a Championship level, without blowing £5m on each, and who wan't to play for this club for all the right reasons. It's risky of course, we could flirt with relegation if our more senior stars don't help to carry them, or our tactics are poor, but its a risk that could prove to be a masterstroke in the future So have we thrown in the towel? Why have we held onto the likes of Bannan, Forestieri and Joao? Surely with a few good loanees, added to the players we have, players who recently got us into the play offs, we can’t be discounted. That would be DC’s take on it anyway. There will be a role, at various times, for some of the youngsters to play their part, but none, from what I’ve seen, are ready for regular Championship football Edited August 20, 2018 by gurujuan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakefield owl Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 10 hours ago, Belfast Owl 2 said: So Palmer, Fox,Boyd etc get slated to the hilt. The youngsters ignored under Carlos get game time. Yet its spun into a negative. He can't win here Maybe Carlos recognised that the youngsters weren’t ready or not good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Somni Jennings Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, gurujuan said: So have we thrown in the towel? Why have we held onto the likes of Bannan, Forestieri and Joao? Surely with a few good loanees, added to the players we have, players who recently got us into the play offs, we can’t be discounted. That would be DC’s take on it anyway. There will be a role, at various times, for some of the youngsters to play their part, but none, from what I’ve seen, are ready for regular Championship football Not so much a case of throwing in the towel, more a case that somehow we need to restrict spending for two or three years, and the best way to do that while still being competitive in the league is to find young hungry players for free - We have several already here at the club, they just need to gain first team football experience. I can't think of a better place to gain it than at a tough level with the liked of Bannan by their side 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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