Another formation thread : back to basics

[Errol Flashman]

I ant been yet this year so I've got a question for those of you that have.

How much of the shaky start is the formation and how much of it is just about intensity and intent.

 

I only ask coz Carlos was 442 and it was dull. Jos is 352 and I'm hearing it's dull. 

 

Is it more about general attacking/defending intent?

Can't really tell from highlights  (though looked like we should have nicked it from them)

[Dutch McLovin]

57 minutes ago, DEH9 said:

I ant been yet this year so I've got a question for those of you that have.

How much of the shaky start is the formation and how much of it is just about intensity and intent.

 

I only ask coz Carlos was 442 and it was dull. Jos is 352 and I'm hearing it's dull. 

 

Is it more about general attacking/defending intent?

Can't really tell from highlights  (though looked like we should have nicked it from them)

It’s all about intent. If played properly this formation could work, as could 442 Under Carlos but neither are being at the moment.

 

The thing that’s baffling me is Jos played in the way this should be played at the end of last year, it’s a defensive formation but if played with 3 up top as he did with ff Nuhiu and Joao last year you have a threat. Why he’s changed is beyond me

[Stoop]

Whatever formation we play is doomed to failure due to our obvious weaknesses in defence, to play wingbacks you need actual wingbacks, not makeshift ones

 

For me it has to be a back 3 of Lees central, Hutchinson to his right, and Pudil to his left

 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Stoop

[RUMBELOWS91]

God I hope he plays Matt Penney on Thursday and he turns out to be the next Roberto Carlos.

 

[Groundhopping Owl]

This has been the problem though - our transfer policy under DC has been relentlessly scattergun, we didn't sign players with any real plan. So it's no surprise now that we've got an unwieldy squad that we can't find an effective shape for. I honestly don't know what formation I'd use at this point, 4-4-2 is always a struggle for us as we lack a strong midfielder to prevent us from being overrun, but 3 or 5 at the back is difficult when Baker might be our only player who's comfortable as a wing back.

 

I'd try a three at the back with a no. 10 role for either Forestieri or the ghost of Almen Abdi to slot into and basically enjoy a free role, something like this:

 

(3-4-1-2)

 

Dawson

 

Thorniley

Lees

Pudil

 

Baker

Hutchinson

Bannan

Reach/Penney

 

Forestieri/Abdi

 

Nuhiu/Fletcher

Joao

[Lionel Fessi]

7 hours ago, Hillsborough Mole said:

Id go back to 4-4-2.

 

Westwood - we have to play our best team. He gives the defence confidence.

 

RB - Palmer - remove the necessity for him to attack so much - meaning he isnt left jogging back after hes lost the ball. 

CB - Lees - quite simply our best centre half

CB - Thorniley - don't trust van Aken - time for Thorniley to step up and make the role his own

LB - Pudil - not a centre back - and another who doesnt need to be attacking all the time

 

RW - Matias? Pace

CM - Bannan - makes it tick

CM - Hutch - ballwinner

LW - Reach

 

ST - FF

ST - any of the other 7

 

 

 

Really wish I'd not done this exercise as it just makes you realise what a dearth of talent we have for a club £50m overdrawn. I'm off for a lie-down. And possibly a cry.  We really are f*****d

 

We cannot play 442.

There is simply no way we could play any formation with 4 at the back, we do not have any fullbacks, none, nothing, nobody.

 

Jos is so limited in the formations he can play and the players he has to work with, such a difficult job for him to get the best out of this mess.

All we know is, Forestieri HAS to play, Bannan HAS to play CM, when fit Hutchinson HAS to play and debatable but Joao HAS to play...if we want any chance of being a top 6 side let alone top 2.

 

                    Dawson

Hutchinson  Lees   Van Aken

Boyd  Bannan Pelupessy Reach

                     FF

               Joao   Nuhiu

 

We have no valid options for 'wingbacks' so we might as well play our best attacking 'wingers', atleast both work hard for 90mins and can offer something in the final third.

Hutch & VA are both more than capable of playing the ball out from the back, let Lees play in the middle where he is best.

FF roaming in the middle is his best position, Joao & Nuhiu have good chemistry and Joao's pace is essential to us being relevant on the counter again.

 

 

   

7 hours ago, Minton said:

Love the irony on Owlstalk.

 

Carlos plays a no frills 4-4-2, gets no end of stick and fans demand he plays a more attacking 3-5-2. 

 

Jos plays 3-5-2, gets no end of stick and fans demand a more solid 4-4-2.

 

Who'd be a manager eh?

 

 +1.

 

With Carlos when we stopped scoring it became a problem, now with we can't stop conceding and it's becoming a problem.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Lionel Fessi

[Minton]

In my mind, our formation would be:

 

 

 

[shandypants]

When everyone is fit, I would go with 3-4-3 or more like 3-4-1-2. The team would be:

 

                     Westwood 

         Lees        Hutch     Pudil 

Palmer       Lee        Bannan    Reach

                      Forestieri 

                  Hooper   Nuhiu

 

 

I am assuming that Westwood will have returned to his normal self.

I haven’t seen enough of Baker yet for him to oust Palmer but he looks to have the potential to. 

Hutch to advance into midfield to support Bannan when Lee makes his forward runs. 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by shandypants

[N0rtherner]

I'd like us to stick with our setup with 3-5-2 of last game and let us become solid with the tactics of that formation.

 

GK - Wildsmith / Dawson (until Westwood "earns" his place back...)

 

LB - Pudil

CB - Hutch / Thorniley (swaps to RB and Lees to CB)

RB - Lees

 

RW - Baker

CM - Bannan

CM - Pelupessy / Boyd (goes LW and Reach to CM)

AM - FF

LW - Reach

 

F - Fletcher / Matias

F - Joao / Nuhiu

 

Rolling the strikers to ensure we've got fresh legs in attack. FF ahead of the middle 5 to play just behind the strikers. Baker and Reach dropping back to a more defensive 5-3-2 if needed.

[mcmigo]

Play Van aken as a sweeper away from home.   Old school but for us given our limited choices it might work and would make us a one off tactically in the league. Hutch and Lees as other centre backs. Van aken behind them.  Will help the new goalie hopefully so he can focus on shot and cross stopping and not charging around the penalty box. Mark Wright did same in Italia 90 for england as shilton didn’t want to tread past his 6 yard line.

it should help shut the defence down a bit and hopefully get a tune out of van aken who can’t play on his heels or toes as a normal centre back. Every clip of him we saw at his old club was a sort of sweeper role where he came through the back line with the ball and engaged direct with the attackers.

Means almost forgetting the offside trap and we don’t really press up the pitch.  But also means we stretch the pitch a bit and it hooefully forces Bannan up the pitch as well where he can do more damage and to get out of the way of van aken when we have the ball. Relies on Nuhiu or Fletcher being ready to take down raking balls of 50 or more yards and one or two others running on if JVA plays it early. 

 

 

 

 

[robswfc]

I'd like to see


........................Westwood

Palmer.........Lees.........Hutch........Thorniley

(I suppose)
..........Boyd.......Bannan........Reach

 

.........Joao...........Nuhiu...........FF

[beloved_aunt]

18 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

Westwood.. seems certain to be out the door, so would be pointless to play him now.

Palmer.. everyone hates palmer.

Pudil at left back would get ruined every game. He simply isn't quick enough any more. He's said that himself.

Matias as a conventional winger.. would offer palmer zero protection. he'd be 2v1 constantly and the boo boys would be at him even more.
FF in a front 2.. historically hasn't worked particularly well. Not sure why it would suddenly work now.

 

So all in all. no thanks. not something i'd like to see us doing.

 

 

 

 

I endorse this message.

[Beholder]

18 hours ago, Hillsborough Mole said:

Id go back to 4-4-2.

 

Westwood - we have to play our best team. He gives the defence confidence.

 

RB - Palmer - remove the necessity for him to attack so much - meaning he isnt left jogging back after hes lost the ball. 

CB - Lees - quite simply our best centre half

CB - Thorniley - don't trust van Aken - time for Thorniley to step up and make the role his own

LB - Pudil - not a centre back - and another who doesnt need to be attacking all the time

 

RW - Matias? Pace

CM - Bannan - makes it tick

CM - Hutch - ballwinner

LW - Reach

 

ST - FF

ST - any of the other 7

 

 

 

Really wish I'd not done this exercise as it just makes you realise what a dearth of talent we have for a club £50m overdrawn. I'm off for a lie-down. And possibly a cry.  We really are f*****d

I agree. We just don't have wingbacks so I dobt see the point of this system anymore. 

 

442

4231

433

 

Any of those would work fine. 

 

Think I should swap pudil and Thornily around in the back four you suggested. 

[adelphi1867]

18 hours ago, Minton said:

Love the irony on Owlstalk.

 

Carlos plays a no frills 4-4-2, gets no end of stick and fans demand he plays a more attacking 3-5-2. 

 

Jos plays 3-5-2, gets no end of stick and fans demand a more solid 4-4-2.

 

Who'd be a manager eh?

Over 20K fans apparently.

All know better than the encumbant of the time.

[Lord Snooty]

 

Dawson

Baker      Lees     Thorniley    Reach

Hutchinson

Lee                   Bannan

Joao              Fletcher           Forestieri

[pazowl55]

57 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Dawson

Baker      Lees     Thorniley    Reach

Hutchinson

Lee                   Bannan

Joao              Fletcher           Forestieri

I would go with that however I would swap Fletcher for Nuhiu. 

Never thought I would be saying this ever, but I think he would be more prolific in that front three.

[shandypants]

9 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Dawson

Baker      Lees     Thorniley    Reach

Hutchinson

Lee                   Bannan

Joao             Fletcher           Forestieri

 

I’d change that slightly to:

 

 

Dawson

Baker      Lees     Hutchinson    Thornily

Bannan

Lee                   Reach

Forestieri

Hooper Nuhiu

[Lord Snooty]

11 minutes ago, shandypants said:

 

I’d change that slightly to:

 

 

Dawson

Baker      Lees     Hutchinson    Thornily

Bannan

Lee                   Reach

Forestieri

Hooper Nuhiu

 

Know what you're saying Shanders old cork, but I don't  want to see Bannan anywhere near the deep role after the horrors of him having to collect it off Loovens' laces for nearly two years!!  

 

 

 

 

[Guest Grez Bez]

I'd revert to 4 at the back as we have looked shaky there. We dont have proper wing back at the club.

 

My team would be as below:

 

[steelowl]

4 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Know what you're saying Shanders old cork, but I don't  want to see Bannan anywhere near the deep role after the horrors of him having to collect it off Loovens' laces for nearly two years!!  

 

2

 

agree

but therein lies Bannan's weakness milord

give him space to look up he will destroy you  - most teams know this so he has to play further back