Another formation thread : back to basics

[Lord Snooty]

27 minutes ago, steelowl said:

 

agree

but therein lies Bannan's weakness milord

give him space to look up he will destroy you  - most teams know this so he has to play further back 

 Exactly why I'd give them a thrusting rapier like front three to occupy them and put an extra body in midfield to go and give people a boot and free the celtic creator up!

[shandypants]

9 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Know what you're saying Shanders old cork, but I don't  want to see Bannan anywhere near the deep role after the horrors of him having to collect it off Loovens' laces for nearly two years!!  

 

 

 

 

I was using your theory of Natural Drift Snoots old bean. I’d horse-whip the blighter to make him play further up the pitch but it seems that young Bannan wants to play it front of those defender chaps. 

[osowl]

On 14/08/2018 at 00:16, Minton said:

Love the irony on Owlstalk.

 

Carlos plays a no frills 4-4-2, gets no end of stick and fans demand he plays a more attacking 3-5-2. 

 

Jos plays 3-5-2, gets no end of stick and fans demand a more solid 4-4-2.

 

Who'd be a manager eh?

The difference is in how you play, not just numbers on a page.

 

Asking the RM to tuck in to shore up midfield like Carlos wanted, is not the same as playing 442 with proper wingers.

 

Not saying any of these is right, since with our squad I still see 433 as the way to go.

 

One thing I agree with:

 

Who'd be a manager?

[DuttyTeabags]

On 13/08/2018 at 23:22, Dutch McLovin said:

We are unbalanced and no one can agree on formation. But to be honest I don’t think we have the players to play 442 those full backs are awful. So my opinion would be 343

 

Keeper - Dawson

back 3 - Pudil Lees Thornley 

Midfield 4 - Baker Hutch Bannan Reach

front 3 (pace) - Matias Joao Forestieri 

Like, could also swap FF to right and play Boyd left of front 3, be good to see him more advanced

 

Ps it was a CM partnership of Hutch and Bannan in 3 nil over Arsenal 

Edited August 15, 2018 by DuttyTeabags
Arsenal

[mcmigo]

You have to get Bannan up the park, he adds nothing knocking it around in his own half.  Thats why I would use Van Aken as an old school sweeper, so he can defend from deeper but run through the other two centre backs if we have the ball and so Bannan has to go further upfield to create the space and passing option.

 

It is a real shame about Hoopers fitness, he is in my view our best player when fit and on form and a really big miss up front. 

[Ian]

Whatever the tactics, here are some facts to consider about where to play Hutchinson

 

Midfield

 

20 minutes in = yellow card and/or injury requiring treatment and reduced mobility for rest of game

65 minutes in = Red card and/or injury requiring 3 months treatment

 

Centre back

 

Best centre back in the division......by a country mile.....very few cards and vastly reduced injuries 

 

Given those facts why do people still think he should play in midfield?

Edited August 15, 2018 by Ian

[Woodie]

I don’t see why people are trying to shoe horn Van Aken into any position that isn’t CB, where he is useless may I add. He can clip a ball there’s no doubt , but he’s stiff , slow , immobile , no good with his back to goal with people running at him , I don’t see him being any better at LWB or in midfield as people mentioned. He’s not good enough. 

[spike1867]

12 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

 Exactly why I'd give them a thrusting rapier like front three to occupy them and put an extra body in midfield to go and give people a boot and free the celtic creator up!

I've been saying this since the close season just after the Wembley defeat.  Back then I said that we were going to have to work much harder to allow ourselves the space to play.  The signs were already there that if you were disciplined against us, we struggled to break teams down.  Its basic football tactics.  You are trying to create space for those players to express themselves.  This for us is Forestieri and Bannan.  Its 5-10 yards of space, not 30 or 40.  You push the opposition back 5-10 yards and either have their defensive midfielders falling back on top of the centre halves or create an extra 5-10 yard gap between opposition and midfield for the likes of Hooper, FF, Bannan and yes when we bought him, I thought Abdi, to occupy. 

 

There were several ways we could have gone about it...

 

1.   Pace.  The threat of getting in around the back means teams drop 5-10 yards to counter it.  This is the space for Bannan to pick passes and get further forward.  Its the space for FF to pick up the ball, turn and run at defenders from out left.  Its that threat that causes defenders to drop deeper, so the likes of Hooper drop into the space in front created by them, that allows midfield runners such as Kieran Lee to ghost into the box unmarked in the space that has been vacated.  We could have brought in a Jamie Vardy type CF who would look to play off the shoulder of the last defender, but they are expensive, especially those who can finish.  We could have brought in wingers with pace to go down the line and provide service from the flanks or alternative go outside to in and play overlapping full backs.  However they can be starved of service, are expensive if they can deliver quality crosses and are usually up against quick full backs.  My preference was for a midfield runner.  A Carlton type, 40 yard lung busters that opposition defensive midfielders hate.  Drag a DCM out of position and allow Bannan the space to exploit.  Cheaper than wingers who can deliver quality ball, or speedy forwards who can finish.  Kieran Lee tends to drift into advanced positions.  What I wanted was someone who worked the channels, if they received the ball then great, hold it up and we are suddenly 40 yards further up the pitch.  If they don't receive the ball they have still committed a DCM to follow them or created an overload on the full back in that channel.

 

2. Old fashioned target man.  Someone capable of holding the ball up, backing into defenders and then having runners getting beyond him, either from out wide (FF) or from midfield (KL).  I thought we had our man in Steven Fletcher to be honest.  I thought in Abdi, Reach, Forestieri, Hooper, Lee and Bannan we would have ample options around him.

 

3. Change of formation.  If we couldn't find pace and Fletcher provided the hold up ability, then change the formation to get Bannan further up the pitch and provide protection for full backs to get forward.  Under CC this never happened.  I still think a 4-2-3-1 suits us best.  I think the clamour to play two centre forwards when we had a glut of them was to tempting to ignore.

 

                                                            

                                                           Westwood/Dawson/Wildsmith

                  Palmer/Baker     Lees/Hutchinson/O'Grady     Pudil/Thorniley/Van Aken             Fox/Penney/Thorniley

 

                                      Hutchinson/Pelupessy/Hunt           Bannan/Reach/Lee

 

            Joao/Matias/Preston/Boyd         Hooper/Bannan/Boyd/Abdi        Forestieri/Reach/Matias/Boyd

 

                                                               Nuhiu/Fletcher/Winnall/Hooper

 

Look at the options, the competition for places.  The ability to go from 4-2-3-1 to 4-3-3 to 3-4-3.  There's a plan B, and C and even a D. There are options to counter opposition threat and exploit weakness.  The ability to get around and beyond the CF.  I've put in bold who I'd start with at the moment based on the little I have seen, but it depends on fitness and opposition too.  The obvious deficiencies are still there at full back, but I would much rather have my full backs defend and not get caught out of position than have them half way up the pitch and not able to get back and contribute defensively altogether.  As I have been saying for ages, we still lack the runner in midfield.  With KL out, then Reach is the best we can do and he's good, he'll run past defensive midfielders all day, they won't be able to live with him, but you'd like him to have more bite if truth be told.

 

Anyway, rant over.

 

 

                                                   

[Dutch McLovin]

1 hour ago, Ian said:

Whatever the tactics, here are some facts to consider about where to play Hutchinson

 

Midfield

 

20 minutes in = yellow card and/or injury requiring treatment and reduced mobility for rest of game

65 minutes in = Red card and/or injury requiring 3 months treatment

 

Centre back

 

Best centre back in the division......by a country mile.....very few cards and vastly reduced injuries 

 

Given those facts why do people still think he should play in midfield?

Can’t argue with those facts but.... when in midfield he is one of the best CDM in the division. And if he doesn’t play there who does as I’ve not been impressed with anyone else in that role.

[beloved_aunt]

Theres lots of formations I think the team could play, but 4-4-2 is about bottom of the list, don't have the wide players for it I'm afraid.

 

I like the look of us with a front three so we can have a big man (Fletch/Dave) up top with Nando in his best position coming in off the left and another pacey option from the right (Reach/Joao/Matias).

 

So 3-4-3 or 4-3-3 for me please. 

[sheriwozgod]

The main problem is we very rarely play 3-5-2..............we usually play 5-3-2.