Moore doesn’t seem to trust younger players

[room0035]

35 minutes ago, Roscoe P. Coltrane said:

Some clubs find young free gems and low cost prospect's year after year 

So why can't we?

For whatever reason Darren Moore does not give youth a chance, it took him so long to play Corbeanu then when he did he played him out of position. We had a defensive crisis and instead of giving Brennan a chance he played other senior players out of position.

 

we could be talking about how much Brennan is going to be vital or how hunt will be the heart of our midfield instead they will both probably be out on loan then released down the road, are they not good enough, we will never know because neither have had a run in the team.

 

thats why it makes me chuckle we even attempted to get in a young attacking winger in Anderson he will just be another player with great prospect to not play, so NML or Hunt or Palmer can play out of position instead.

[Daniele Giovanni]

16 hours ago, Siggijonsson said:

When Moore joined I thought we would at least develop a more balanced squad in terms of age. You do need experienced players (Bannan etc) but it needs balancing with the energy and enthusiasm of younger players. Plus as a player ages it is only natural they become more injury prone. However, 1 1/2 years on the average age of our current first team must still one of the oldest in the division. For example, probably our strongest current first team 11 (assuming Moore again goes for the 3-5-2 system) has an average age of of exactly 30 (see below)

 

Gk - Stockdale (36)

Cd - Palmer (30)

Cd - Heneghan (28)

Cd - Iorfa (26)

Rwb - Hunt (31)

Lwb - Johnson (31)

Dm - Luongo (29) - if he stays

Cm - Byers (26)

Am - Bannan (32)

St - Windass (28)

St - Gregory (33)

 

I realise the transfer window still has a long way to go but just a look at the recent transfers and gossip.  We are linked to Rotherham’s 30 year old striker Smith, whereas today Barnsley sign a good young player like Luca Connell (21) on a free transfer from Celtic.  Only one of these players has the potential to develop further so that they are a good championship player if we should go up and/or potentially bring in a good future transfer fee (and it’s not Smith). 
The current transfer policy does seems very short term(ist), it doesn’t help us financially (as we never get fees for any of our leaving players) and finally It seems to be driven by Moore who prefers older experienced players (like many of his predecessors). A worried Owls fan

 

He doesn't trust younger players, but more importantly WE don't trust him

[flash]

Answer IMO is a blend of both experience and youth.
 

I know it’s a bit of a ‘chicken and egg’ scenario, but what young players have really excelled at SWFC to support this argument? Not a criticism - personally trying to cast my mind back to think about those youngsters who’ve been able to handle the expectations of our crowd (and one that has high expectations). 
 

 

[The coach]

8 hours ago, shandypants said:

Silly comment. 

Why? 

[swinners]

16 hours ago, Siggijonsson said:

When Moore joined I thought we would at least develop a more balanced squad in terms of age. You do need experienced players (Bannan etc) but it needs balancing with the energy and enthusiasm of younger players. Plus as a player ages it is only natural they become more injury prone. However, 1 1/2 years on the average age of our current first team must still one of the oldest in the division. For example, probably our strongest current first team 11 (assuming Moore again goes for the 3-5-2 system) has an average age of of exactly 30 (see below)

 

Gk - Stockdale (36)

Cd - Palmer (30)

Cd - Heneghan (28)

Cd - Iorfa (26)

Rwb - Hunt (31)

Lwb - Johnson (31)

Dm - Luongo (29) - if he stays

Cm - Byers (26)

Am - Bannan (32)

St - Windass (28)

St - Gregory (33)

 

I realise the transfer window still has a long way to go but just a look at the recent transfers and gossip.  We are linked to Rotherham’s 30 year old striker Smith, whereas today Barnsley sign a good young player like Luca Connell (21) on a free transfer from Celtic.  Only one of these players has the potential to develop further so that they are a good championship player if we should go up and/or potentially bring in a good future transfer fee (and it’s not Smith). 
The current transfer policy does seems very short term(ist), it doesn’t help us financially (as we never get fees for any of our leaving players) and finally It seems to be driven by Moore who prefers older experienced players (like many of his predecessors). A worried Owls fan

 

True, but you have forgotten the younger players we have used.  BPF, FDB, adrenian,  brennan.  Prime age for players is 26 to 30 and we have many of those.  BUT, the younger players have  to BE GOOD ENOUGH,  and ours are not.  You can't just put players in because they are young.  Look at Jayden brown... awful, if this was the case we could just pull youth out if the crowd.  If they're good enough they're old enough.... but must be good enough!

[Philb125]

1 hour ago, room0035 said:

For whatever reason Darren Moore does not give youth a chance, it took him so long to play Corbeanu then when he did he played him out of position. We had a defensive crisis and instead of giving Brennan a chance he played other senior players out of position.

 

we could be talking about how much Brennan is going to be vital or how hunt will be the heart of our midfield instead they will both probably be out on loan then released down the road, are they not good enough, we will never know because neither have had a run in the team.

 

thats why it makes me chuckle we even attempted to get in a young attacking winger in Anderson he will just be another player with great prospect to not play, so NML or Hunt or Palmer can play out of position instead.

In early preseason last year he said our youth will be given the best platform here. Then he went on to sign a dozen players and Liam most of the kids out to non league teams before we released them.

 

Would Brennan had been worse than Johnson at CB, would Hagen or Adedoyin been worse than Brown as wide forwards?
 

I was quite looking forward to us ditching a bunch of over the hill, overpaid players and building a team that would develop but I guess it’s more a needs must, recruit proven talent type situation.

[Owls2k]

This isn't a concern for me at all.

 

League One and Sheffield Wednesday is hardly an environment to nurture an imperfect emerging talent with the pressure everyone is under.

 

Moore just wants the best player for the job, and if there's someone with experience at this level or above then they're bound to get the nod.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Owls2k

[109Waddle]

13 minutes ago, Owls2k said:

This isn't a concern for me at all.

 

League One and Sheffield Wednesday is hardly an environment to nurture an imperfect emerging talent with the pressure everyone is under.

 

Moore just wants the best player for the job, and if there's someone with experience at this level or above then they're bound to get the nod.

Exactly this.

Promotion is paramount. We all want to unearth young gems from lower leagues or loan exciting youth players from leagues above but we need players that can cope with the pressure of playing for us, be consistent in the level of game they bring and stand up physically to the type of football played in league one. 

Let’s face it, if Moore brings in a load of young talent and they don’t hit the ground running in August, they’ll be plenty on here calling for his head. If I was in his shoes, I’d be opting for experience over age.

[shandypants]

1 hour ago, The coach said:

Why? 

Because finishing in fourth place with a points total that could have won promotion in some other years tells us that he does know what he is doing. 

[Tewkesbury]

5 minutes ago, 109Waddle said:

Exactly this.

Promotion is paramount. We all want to unearth young gems from lower leagues or loan exciting youth players from leagues above but we need players that can cope with the pressure of playing for us, be consistent in the level of game they bring and stand up physically to the type of football played in league one. 

Let’s face it, if Moore brings in a load of young talent and they don’t hit the ground running in August, they’ll be plenty on here calling for his head. If I was in his shoes, I’d be opting for experience over age.

Short termism is fine if it achieves promotion.

 

But it didn't. 

 

How many more failed promotions and expensive rebuilds before Chansiri pulls the plug?

 

Has everyone forgotten how we ended up down here in the first place?

[Tewkesbury]

1 minute ago, shandypants said:

Because finishing in fourth place with a points total that could have won promotion in some other years tells us that he does know what he is doing. 

Half the league had a points total that would have got promotion, and they got it with much lower resources.

[The coach]

11 minutes ago, shandypants said:

Because finishing in fourth place with a points total that could have won promotion in some other years tells us that he does know what he is doing. 

So by not getting promoted proves he knows how to get promoted..ok

[109Waddle]

15 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

How many more failed promotions and expensive rebuilds before Chansiri pulls the plug?

Exactly. Bringing in young players for the longer term doesn’t point towards the rate of success that Chansiri and the fans want.

[109Waddle]

1 minute ago, 109Waddle said:

Exactly. Bringing in young players for the longer term doesn’t point towards the rate of success that Chansiri and the fans want.

Manager’s at Wednesday can’t afford to fail so often go for experience over age.

[Teddy Nickelarse]

26 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

Short termism is fine if it achieves promotion.

 

But it didn't. 

 

How many more failed promotions and expensive rebuilds before Chansiri pulls the plug?

 

Has everyone forgotten how we ended up down here in the first place?

Spot on. Promotion is the objective but cannot be the be all and end all. There has to be a longer term strategy that is sustainable in the event that promotion is not achieved.

[CircleSeven]

32 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

How many more failed promotions and expensive rebuilds before Chansiri pulls the plug?

I’d say the answer to this is one. We have to go up this year. So under those circumstances I’d say the opportunity to try out young untested players is pretty small. 
 

Personally I’d like to see us develop more young players but don’t think a ‘shît or bust’ promotion campaign is the best place to start it. 

[catdog1121]

17 hours ago, andytrig said:

Bailey Peacock-Farrell 25

 

Judged by some on here as too young and inexperienced.

 

Not by Darren Moore....

 

To be fair at the start of the season he made a few mistakes and those points arguably cost us a spot in the auto's...  Not saying he was to blame, I think we need a mix, I hope with an experienced first team we bring in some youth that can be added as and when needed.

[Tewkesbury]

23 minutes ago, 109Waddle said:

Manager’s at Wednesday can’t afford to fail so often go for experience over age.

And still keep failing.

 

Only leaving us in a worse position every year.

[McRightSide]

Adeniran was a top player for us until he got injured

 

FDB played a fair chunk of games

 

BPF was first choice

 

Brown was a regular starter until we realized he wasn’t very good 

 

Hardly right to say he doesn’t trust younger players

[Siggijonsson]

Just to put into contrast with the average age of our team, this is the Sunderland team that played in the play off final (and won) - the average age was 26. There are experienced players in Evans, Bathh, Wright etc. But supported by some good young players (Patterson, Cirkin, Embleton etc). 
Patterson (22)

Goach (26) 

Wright (29) 

Bathh (31) 

Cirkin (20)

Evans (31) 

O’Nien (27) 

Roberts (25) 

Pritchard (29) 

Embleton (23) 

Stewart (25) 

We need something similar to this, in terms of ages at SWFC.