Jump to content

Moore doesn’t seem to trust younger players


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Tewkesbury said:

Half the league had a points total that would have got promotion, and they got it with much lower resources.

 

How have you worked that out?

 

Our points total would have been enough for automatic promotion in 3 of the past 5 completed seasons in League One.

 

Even if we take the lowest points total needed for automatic promotion in that time (81), only the points totals of last season's top six would have been enough for automatic promotion - nowhere near half the league.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

How have you worked that out?

 

Our points total would have been enough for automatic promotion in 3 of the past 5 completed seasons in League One.

 

Even if we take the lowest points total needed for automatic promotion in that time (81), only the points totals of last season's top six would have been enough for automatic promotion - nowhere near half the league.

OK, a third of the league then.

 

My point being that last season was a massive anomaly due to COVID, with a huge gulf between the teams with resources and the teams without.

 

We were essentially playing in a mini league of competing teams and were lucky to finish in the middle of them.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

OK, a third of the league then.

 

My point being that last season was a massive anomaly due to COVID, with a huge gulf between the teams with resources and the teams without.

 

We were essentially playing in a mini league of competing teams and were lucky to finish in the middle of them.

 

The table doesn't tend to lie over the course of a full season - we finished 4th on merit.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

The table doesn't tend to lie over the course of a full season - we finished 4th on merit.

My point was 4th in a mini table of 8 or so teams who were comparable to us.

 

We were average at best considering the resources at our disposal.

 

  • Love 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Daniele Giovanni said:

He doesn't trust younger players, but more importantly WE don't trust him

Who's "WE"?  I trust him more than Pulis, Monk, Bruce, Jos, plus a heap of others.  Can you explain why you think it is more important that you don't trust him than that he doesn't (as you say) trust younger players?

  • Like 3
  • Love 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, 1867tim said:

Who's "WE"?  I trust him more than Pulis, Monk, Bruce, Jos, plus a heap of others.  Can you explain why you think it is more important that you don't trust him than that he doesn't (as you say) trust younger players?

He's tactilly naive, those games he got it wrong last season cost us automatic promotion, set pieces cost us big time, being an average defender in his playing days, he got it all wrong, he's a Doncaster type manager, not a Wednesday or WBA level

  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Roscoe P. Coltrane said:

Some clubs find young free gems and low cost prospect's year after year 

So why can't we?

Most likely focus if your mangement and scouting teams are tasked with identifying and recruiting players aimed at achieving  a sh*t or bust promotion campaign. To protect their own positions it's likely that proven performers might be preferred to younger unpolished potential gems. There has been a whiff of that type of short termism for too long IMO.

  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

99% of managers at any level wouldn't pick or play young player if they could do so.

 

Most often it is up to those higher in hierarchy to DEMAND from manager to bring age of the squad down, bring young talent to the club  and develop players that will become salable assets or cornerstones of the first team squad for years to come.

 

Managers want experienced players as they are less likely to make mistakes that might cost them their jobs and because they know what they can get from them.

 

As an example:

 

Why would any manager play youngsters that would bring to the club 300m in three years time as He likely won't be there then to reap benefits. It is down to those running the club to demand more than just results from manager. He should create value from within and leave after him better and younger squad than one He took over.

 

Moore talks the talk, but He didn't bring in, played or developed any young player since He took over. He played them only when none of senior players were available, out of necessity rather than desire to improve them. i guess He did same at Doncaster where He had smaller squad so had to do it much more often.

 

Look no further than Brennan as a perfect example of everything we are doing wrong. We played him as there was no one else available, he steps in, does well, get prized and offered new contract, And then as soon as first senior player became available He lost his place in our first team squad. Moore rather played senior players out of position rather than trusted youngster who did well and started to prove himself. So much for his youth policy and development of young players.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

Most likely focus if your mangement and scouting teams are tasked with identifying and recruiting players aimed at achieving  a sh*t or bust promotion campaign. To protect their own positions it's likely that proven performers might be preferred to younger unpolished potential gems. There has been a whiff of that type of short termism for too long IMO.

Totally agree 

And that's why when Chansiri mentions running the club in a sustainable manner he gets pelters and rightly so...

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Daniele Giovanni said:

He's tactilly naive, those games he got it wrong last season cost us automatic promotion, set pieces cost us big time, being an average defender in his playing days, he got it all wrong, he's a Doncaster type manager, not a Wednesday or WBA level

He made mistakes, but he was astute enough to take a scratch squad and a club in meltdown to the playoffs.  I'm not sure what his playing career has to do with his management capability, but 4 x promotions to the Premier, 2 x PFA Championship Team of the Year, 2 x international caps, 668 x professional apprearances, is that average?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest FoxOwl12
On 17/06/2022 at 16:47, Siggijonsson said:

When Moore joined I thought we would at least develop a more balanced squad in terms of age. You do need experienced players (Bannan etc) but it needs balancing with the energy and enthusiasm of younger players. Plus as a player ages it is only natural they become more injury prone. However, 1 1/2 years on the average age of our current first team must still one of the oldest in the division. For example, probably our strongest current first team 11 (assuming Moore again goes for the 3-5-2 system) has an average age of of exactly 30 (see below)

 

Gk - Stockdale (36)

Cd - Palmer (30)

Cd - Heneghan (28)

Cd - Iorfa (26)

Rwb - Hunt (31)

Lwb - Johnson (31)

Dm - Luongo (29) - if he stays

Cm - Byers (26)

Am - Bannan (32)

St - Windass (28)

St - Gregory (33)

 

I realise the transfer window still has a long way to go but just a look at the recent transfers and gossip.  We are linked to Rotherham’s 30 year old striker Smith, whereas today Barnsley sign a good young player like Luca Connell (21) on a free transfer from Celtic.  Only one of these players has the potential to develop further so that they are a good championship player if we should go up and/or potentially bring in a good future transfer fee (and it’s not Smith). 
The current transfer policy does seems very short term(ist), it doesn’t help us financially (as we never get fees for any of our leaving players) and finally It seems to be driven by Moore who prefers older experienced players (like many of his predecessors). A worried Owls fan

 

I certainly get your point, but I do think we need players with experience to get out of this bloody division. It's a tough one to call. A blend of youth and experience would be ideal. One thing we definitely need are players with some pace. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 17/06/2022 at 19:18, HootHoot said:

Not sure it's entirely accurate this statement. 

 

Moore brought in Adeniran, Storey, BPF, Brown, Corbeanu, Agbontohoma, TJJ and we've used FDB numerous times last season.

 

Some of them didn't work out and some of them were injured and some were signed for the future in Agbontohoma. But there's certainly plenty of evidence to suggest we like a blend of youth and experience in the squad.

 

I'd be very surprised if we don't see some more youth come through the door before the window is closed. 

 

 

Only BPF and Storey out of that list played regularly and BPF is nearly 26 

Donny fans did warn us he’s not one for bringing kids through although I have no idea what the quality of ours is. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a lot of the comments in this thread go a long way to explaining Moore’s approach here.

 

A lot think he should be out of the door now because he supposedly failed with ‘the best squad in the divisIon’

 

I think he deserves another shot at it next season as I think there were a lot more positives than negatives from the last campaign.

 

That said it won’t take long probably 5 minutes after the first ball is kicked in anger next season for his critics to go again.

 

As much as I’m sure that he would like to build a younger side/squad, the pressure from above him and from the fans will push him in the direction of using experienced players and perhaps a more safety first approach with regards to tactics.

 

An 85 points haul in a season would be appreciated at most clubs but not here and it’s a reason why we’ve been in the footballing wilderness for 22 years and counting and unless at some point we cut a manager some slack, we’ll never leave it.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 18/06/2022 at 11:15, Teddy Nickelarse said:

Spot on. Promotion is the objective but cannot be the be all and end all. There has to be a longer term strategy that is sustainable in the event that promotion is not achieved.

Unfortunately we are being told of a mind switch and we are doing this and that, but its clear as day the only thing that has changed om the playing side, is we are no longer spending big money on older players we are trying to sign them on the cheap or as free agents.

 

We get promoted this season we will have another 8-10 players leave and need to recruit another 10+ players. 

 

Every season we having big changes in personnel are needing lots of new players through the door because of the short termist view of the club. We are spending more on players and wages of the other teams in the league and going backwards because we are building nothing for the future. Very few of the systems signed are sold for more than we pay for them.

 

16/17 13 signings

17/18 5 signings

18/19 7 signings

19/20 13 signings

20/21 11 signings

21/22 18 signings

 

In the last 3 season we have signed 42 players on permanents or loans, of 18 players this season - 10 where either loans ending or released.

We cannot keep having to rebuild the team each season we need some consistency you don't get this with players that have a few years left of their careers

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...