Moore doesn’t seem to trust younger players

[mike84]

The priority for the club has to be getting out of league 1.  The manager will choose the players he thinks will achieve that 

 

I think that one of our problems is that we change managers so often nobody ever has time to actually put their plan for the squad into action.  So even if a manager wants to sign a few younger players with the future in mind they probably think what's the point because I'll have been sacked before they're ready for the first team.

 

 

[Teddy Nickelarse]

39 minutes ago, room0035 said:

Unfortunately we are being told of a mind switch and we are doing this and that, but its clear as day the only thing that has changed om the playing side, is we are no longer spending big money on older players we are trying to sign them on the cheap or as free agents.

 

We get promoted this season we will have another 8-10 players leave and need to recruit another 10+ players. 

 

Every season we having big changes in personnel are needing lots of new players through the door because of the short termist view of the club. We are spending more on players and wages of the other teams in the league and going backwards because we are building nothing for the future. Very few of the systems signed are sold for more than we pay for them.

 

16/17 13 signings

17/18 5 signings

18/19 7 signings

19/20 13 signings

20/21 11 signings

21/22 18 signings

 

In the last 3 season we have signed 42 players on permanents or loans, of 18 players this season - 10 where either loans ending or released.

We cannot keep having to rebuild the team each season we need some consistency you don't get this with players that have a few years left of their careers

No argument from me on any of this.

[shandypants]

On 18/06/2022 at 10:46, Tewkesbury said:

Half the league had a points total that would have got promotion, and they got it with much lower resources.

No they didn’t. 
 

On 18/06/2022 at 10:53, The coach said:

So by not getting promoted proves he knows how to get promoted..ok

Yes. Moore has proved that he knows how to get enough points to be promoted. You’ve just made up your mind and are refusing to listen to other opinions. 

[Tewkesbury]

3 minutes ago, shandypants said:

No they didn’t. 
 

Yes. Moore has proved that he knows how to get enough points to be promoted. You’ve just made up your mind and are refusing to listen to other opinions. 

The lowest points total for promotion from league one was 72, 10 teams got that last season. Pretty much half the league.

 

If he knew how to get enough points to be promoted, we would have been promoted.

 

Last season was an anomaly with regards to points, but either way you look at it, we still failed.

[shandypants]

3 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

The lowest points total for promotion from league one was 72, 10 teams got that last season. Pretty much half the league.

 

If he knew how to get enough points to be promoted, we would have been promoted.

 

Last season was an anomaly with regards to points, but either way you look at it, we still failed.

So, we disagree. What do you propose then? Sack Moore?

[Tewkesbury]

Just now, shandypants said:

So, we disagree. What do you propose then? Sack Moore?

No point now, too late.

 

I'm not confident this season, but he has shown a few glimmers, just needs to be less stubborn.

Perfect is the enemy of good enough.

[Guest Musttryharder]

On 17/06/2022 at 16:47, Siggijonsson said:

When Moore joined I thought we would at least develop a more balanced squad in terms of age. You do need experienced players (Bannan etc) but it needs balancing with the energy and enthusiasm of younger players. Plus as a player ages it is only natural they become more injury prone. However, 1 1/2 years on the average age of our current first team must still one of the oldest in the division. For example, probably our strongest current first team 11 (assuming Moore again goes for the 3-5-2 system) has an average age of of exactly 30 (see below)

 

Gk - Stockdale (36)

Cd - Palmer (30)

Cd - Heneghan (28)

Cd - Iorfa (26)

Rwb - Hunt (31)

Lwb - Johnson (31)

Dm - Luongo (29) - if he stays

Cm - Byers (26)

Am - Bannan (32)

St - Windass (28)

St - Gregory (33)

 

I realise the transfer window still has a long way to go but just a look at the recent transfers and gossip.  We are linked to Rotherham’s 30 year old striker Smith, whereas today Barnsley sign a good young player like Luca Connell (21) on a free transfer from Celtic.  Only one of these players has the potential to develop further so that they are a good championship player if we should go up and/or potentially bring in a good future transfer fee (and it’s not Smith). 
The current transfer policy does seems very short term(ist), it doesn’t help us financially (as we never get fees for any of our leaving players) and finally It seems to be driven by Moore who prefers older experienced players (like many of his predecessors). A worried Owls fan

 

I genuinely believe DM is frightened to use young uns for the fear of it backfiring. He tries to play it too safe and he isn't a chancer. Whether that's to protect them, doesn't rate them, who knows but only DM. 

[shandypants]

12 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

No point now, too late.

 

I'm not confident this season, but he has shown a few glimmers, just needs to be less stubborn.

Perfect is the enemy of good enough.

So if he has “shown a few glimmers” then why not back him? All managers have their faults - every single one. Moore came into last season off the back of an absolute 5h1t show created by Chansiri. When you consider that, what Moore did was highly commendable. 
 

I’m backing Moore because I’m sick to the hind teeth of constantly “resetting” with a new manager. We need to stick with a manager at some point - why not Moore? 

[Tewkesbury]

Just now, shandypants said:

So if he has “shown a few glimmers” then why not back him? All managers have their faults - every single one. Moore came into last season off the back of an absolute 5h1t show created by Chansiri. When you consider that, what Moore did was highly commendable. 
 

I’m backing Moore because I’m sick to the hind teeth of constantly “resetting” with a new manager. We need to stick with a manager at some point - why not Moore? 

Because he didn't learn from his mistakes.

 

He went from an inconsistent tactic before Jan, stumbled into a winning direct pressing style that got us back in the hunt for autos, then went back to the same inconsistent tactic from before and started to drop points.

 

The glimmers I mentioned are the fact that he sorted out set pieces, both defensively and offensively, which we scored 40% of our goals from in the run in, and the fact that he identified the issues with the lack of pace and movement of his tactic and tried to use NML and Windass to mitigate it.

Didn't work, but at least he tried.

 

As I said, perfect is the enemy of good enough.

It's like he had the perfect team and style of play in his head and tried everything to make it work, when he had a style and team that while not the perfect one he envisaged, was good enough to do the job right in front of him.

[shandypants]

24 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

Because he didn't learn from his mistakes.

 

He went from an inconsistent tactic before Jan, stumbled into a winning direct pressing style that got us back in the hunt for autos, then went back to the same inconsistent tactic from before and started to drop points.

 

The glimmers I mentioned are the fact that he sorted out set pieces, both defensively and offensively, which we scored 40% of our goals from in the run in, and the fact that he identified the issues with the lack of pace and movement of his tactic and tried to use NML and Windass to mitigate it.

Didn't work, but at least he tried.

 

As I said, perfect is the enemy of good enough.

It's like he had the perfect team and style of play in his head and tried everything to make it work, when he had a style and team that while not the perfect one he envisaged, was good enough to do the job right in front of him.

I think you’re doing Moore a great disservice by saying he stumbled into a winning tactic. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by shandypants

[Tewkesbury]

20 minutes ago, shandypants said:

I think you’re doing Moore a great disservice by saying he stumbled into a winning tactic. 

It was when he said himself that the team picked itself.

 

Fair play to him for going direct and pressing when he couldn't use his normal style, but his mistake was dropping it when he had the players back to return to his previous tactics.

 

As I said, it's like he knows what the problems are, but he won't deviate from his style even if it's not working.

[The coach]

44 minutes ago, shandypants said:

I think you’re doing Moore a great disservice by saying he stumbled into a winning tactic. 

This is last chanc3 saloon for Moore..3rd time lucky hopefully (but I very much doubt it)..so far..he has failed to keep us up..failed to get promoted..what makes you think he his the best thing since canned beer??

[shandypants]

59 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

It was when he said himself that the team picked itself.

 

Fair play to him for going direct and pressing when he couldn't use his normal style, but his mistake was dropping it when he had the players back to return to his previous tactics.

 

As I said, it's like he knows what the problems are, but he won't deviate from his style even if it's not working.

Apart from when he did deviate from his style last season. 
 

When did he say that the team picks itself? I can’t remember that quote from him. 

[shandypants]

42 minutes ago, The coach said:

This is last chanc3 saloon for Moore..3rd time lucky hopefully (but I very much doubt it)..so far..he has failed to keep us up..failed to get promoted..what makes you think he his the best thing since canned beer??

Failed to keep us up? We were pretty much doomed when Moore came in. Moore was the fourth manager of the season - the other three had not reversed the effects of the points deduction. Moore had to pick up a team that had won once in 11 games and he almost kept us up. I wouldn’t count that against Moore. The points deduction brought on by Chansiri’s mismanagement further compounded by the negative effects of not paying players was probably the thing that got us relegated. 
 

Moore didn’t get us promoted but he took us to fourth with a team that he had to assemble at the last minute. We could barely put out a team with the players we had until the embargo was lifted in July last year. Look back on here. This time last year, many were worried about a second relegation in a row. 
 

This coming season is probably the season judge Moore but we can’t yet say that for certain because, yet again, we don’t truly know the state of the club. 

[SDS Owl]

On 18/06/2022 at 12:48, Tewkesbury said:

My point was 4th in a mini table of 8 or so teams who were comparable to us.

 

We were average at best considering the resources at our disposal.

 

You are wasting your time mate. Some people will argue failure is success no matter what.

 

We finished in the bottom half of the football pyramid. 

[GMOwl72]

On 17/06/2022 at 17:55, zorbatheowl said:

I bow to your superior knowledge. I should have said ex international- 8x 1st division winner- 2x Fa cup winner- 4x League cup winner- 6x Charity Shield winner - FL Super cup winner -  3x European cup winner - UEFA Super cup winner

Yes didnt have his coaching badges though

Or you could have said pundit!

[Tewkesbury]

1 hour ago, shandypants said:

Apart from when he did deviate from his style last season. 
 

When did he say that the team picks itself? I can’t remember that quote from him. 

Sometime in February. During our injury crisis when we won 7 of 8.

[Jim]

2 hours ago, The coach said:

This is last chanc3 saloon for Moore..3rd time lucky hopefully (but I very much doubt it)..so far..he has failed to keep us up..failed to get promoted..what makes you think he his the best thing since canned beer??

 

I see @The coach is spouting off his wisdom again?

[Tewkesbury]

42 minutes ago, SDS Owl said:

You are wasting your time mate. Some people will argue failure is success no matter what.

 

We finished in the bottom half of the football pyramid. 

It's just the same as Man U in the EPL but a lot more depressing.

 

With the resources available, 5th or 6th is still seen as failure to Man U and Arsenal even though 6th is near the top of the league and would be a great achievement for, say, Brighton.

[Mick70]

Regardless whether moore wants to play youngsters the pressure from the top AND the fan base will not allow a slow rebuild? Brentford have slowly over a period of years with a good scouting network and good coaches , even when changing manager they have kept to business plan and strategy that has got them to the premier league. They have managed it because their fans accept they are a small club with little expectation of getting to where they are now ! We are a bigger club than a few in premier and bigger than a lot in championship and with that comes pressure to deliver from managers and fans , We are in a mess because the chairman shock the dice and was 90 mins away from achieving the goal. Now we are paying for that gamble