Wrong Tactics (All Season )

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

 

 

Bringing in new players is standard at this level, but teams don’t take 6 months to settle.  

This is absolutely NOT true

[daleblue]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

 

82 points tho

Could be 85 by the end of Saturdays game

 

Yet people still want to make out they know better than him and yet he's gone about his business calmly, professionally, effectively and with absolute class and respect at every turn

 

Yes, but that doesn't  take away the fact he  does "um" a lot.

[OxonOwl]

2 minutes ago, daleblue said:

 

Yes, but that doesn't  take away the fact he  does "um" a lot.

 

 

 

More of an "erm" IMHO

 

 

 

[Tewkesbury]

6 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

 

 

We have 82 points

Gregory just scored a hat-trick and is on fire right now with the tactics that Moore has been implementing

 

Come on 

Come on now...

Let's admit that just sitting there saying 'yeah but could have had more' is literally the easiest, laziest way to go about critiquing a manager who's been up against it, changed, evolved, and is succeeding

Anyone can just sit and say 'could have got more'

Anyone

You could show me the best team of all time and I could sit and point at the draw they got that season and said 'yeah but could have been a win that - should have been a win actually with the squad at the managers disposal' etc

Or I could point to the time they won 1-0 and said 'could and should have been more - should have been 5-0 easy'

etc

 

The reality and the stark truth of things is we have a manager who came onto a burning sinking ship, has put most of the fires out, has stopped the water leaking AND just about got us back to shore

AYE AYE CAPTAIN MOORE - I"M FULLY ABOARD THE GOOD SHIP WEDNESDAY..

 

BOUND FOR SUCCESS LAND

Meanwhile a few of the passengers are 'he could have put that fire out faster, he could have stopped the water leaking in a different way, and by the way we should be home and dry by now ffs'

All whilst Captain Moore has just been cracking on with his job with grace, courage, wisdom and bravery

That's a lot of words to say you're wrong.

 

If he gets us up, then his gamble paid off, and I'll hold up my hands.

However, if it doesn't, then there you go.

 

I really do hope he succeeds.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

This is absolutely NOT true

So why didn’t all the other clubs take 6 months to start getting results when they made the same number of signings?

[@owlstalk]

4 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

That's a lot of words to say you're wrong.

 

If he gets us up, then his gamble paid off, and I'll hold up my hands.

However, if it doesn't, then there you go.

 

I really do hope he succeeds.

Honestly all I can do at this point of the debate is leave you to it if all you have is 'nah should have done better'

 

 

[Tewkesbury]

4 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Honestly all I can do at this point of the debate is leave you to it

 

 

Okely dokely.

 

Good chat.

[Brommers]

58 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

Don't disagree with the calmness and class thing.

 

I'll put my cards on the table.

I like Moore. I like Gregory. I want to see us win.

 

Early in the season, I was one of DM's biggest supporters on here, explaining why he made the decisions he did when he was being slated for tinkering.

And I could explain them all.

Bar one.

Why he built a side around a player who didn't have the attributes needed for the role. Why he changed everyone in attack and midfield in the 4231 to make it work, except for the one player who he needed to change.

Then came Oxford. Gregory went off at half time at 1-0 down and Berahino came on. We were like a different team, space everywhere, overlaps for days. We lost 2-1 but the second half performance was the best we'd played all season. If the penalty had been given on Pato, I honestly think we'd have a completely different side about now.

Even now, I understand why he makes the subs he does, why he makes the changes he does.

 

He's actually a good manager, he identifies where he's weak and tries to improve, you can see the side evolving game after game.

 

But. In my eyes, his basic plan is fundamentally flawed. He's spent all season trying to make Gregory work. It's worked to an extent, and if Windass had been fit he'd have probably pulled it off. But instead of solving the problem at the root, he's tinkered round the edges, doubling down on his mistake.

 

The downsides if playing Gregory as main striker far outweigh the upsides.

 

We're still having exactly the same issues offensively and defensively that I identified in October, and if I can see them, then any manager worth his salt can too.

 

Look back to October, September. The ones criticising are making exactly the same arguments now as they were then.

 

Yes, we have 82 points, but we could have many, many more.

I enjoyed your post but don't necessarily agree with all of it. What are the downsides you refer to with playing Gregory and more importantly what should DM have done differently especially when you consider the Limited options available.?

[Athelwulf]

51 minutes ago, owl84 said:

 

We aren't higher because a newly put together squad took 10/15 games to settle in and get use to the division. 

 

Look how well the newly put together squad at ipswich has done and compare us to that.........

 

We are going to end in the playoffs with 82 83 or 85 points thats remarkable when we had 22 points from the first 15 games.

 

It's the defending.

 

At this level you keep it simple; you kick it, you head it, you clear your lines, you get it as far away from your area as you can.

 

You Rob Jones it.

 

It's basic, safety-first defending, but it's effective.

 

And so many teams in the Third rely on goals from set pieces, that you have to be able to defend them.

 

That we're still having problems in this regard in the penultimate match of the season cannot be put down to growing pains.

[Django]

3 hours ago, markowl said:

Reyt opinion.

 

Sack the manager, but don't know who to replace him with.

 

You been in the recruitment game long?

 

 

Not that bit

 

I agree with the replace Moore bit though 

 

 

[Tewkesbury]

3 minutes ago, Brommers said:

I enjoyed your post but don't necessarily agree with all of it. What are the downsides you refer to with playing Gregory and more importantly what should DM have done differently especially when you consider the Limited options available.?

Its a style that can hammer teams who back off but is weak against pressing teams.

 

Mainly the lack of pace and movement up front.

Gregory plays to feet and doesn't have the pace to get in behind, so we have no long threat. This necessitates playing out from the back, slow build up. We don't do it through choice, its necessity. We're also very one dimensional, we have a very limited attack which is generally either a ball to Gregory in the D, or a byline cross.

Stop the ball to feet, man mark Bannan and we struggle to score.

Becsuse of the to feet build up, we're also vulnerable to counters as we're very closed up in midfield, giving a lot of free kicks away as they break and getting caught in posession at the back and in midfield.

 

Yesterday had both the good and bad points of it. Both the attacking tactics that worked as well as the defensive issues and the way they started to press and we struggled to get anywhere until he brought on NML.

[Guest DoesJackHunt]

26 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

So why didn’t all the other clubs take 6 months to start getting results when they made the same number of signings?

Because the individuals settled quicker, it’s not an exact science is it ?

Sometimes us fans have to show a bit of patience.

 

also, did anyone overhaul the squad like we did. I don’t know the numbers of signings the other clubs in the top 7 made.

I would like to see the stats on this if anyone’s got them.

How many people left and new signings were made for each of the top 7 clubs,

including us, in last summers transfer window ? 

[Guest DoesJackHunt]

9 minutes ago, Django said:

Not that bit

 

I agree with the replace Moore bit though 

 

 

Why? 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, DoesJackHunt said:

Because the individuals settled quicker, it’s not an exact science is it ?

Sometimes us fans have to show a bit of patience.

 

also, did anyone overhaul the squad like we did. I don’t know the numbers of signings the other clubs in the top 7 made.

I would like to see the stats on this if anyone’s got them.

How many people left and new signings were made for each of the top 7 clubs,

including us, in last summers transfer window ? 

I’ve just posted the links to this, Rotherham were the lowest with 9 signings. The rest were pretty similar to us in terms of turnover 

[@owlstalk]

 

Can I just at this point stick my nose into the conversation again and just ask where all the managers are that have been called for, screamed for and demanded to come here by Wednesday fans over the last 5 years?

Most have been failures, sacked, disappeared and not been the managers that our fans have thought/told us they are

 

Wednesday fans have literally the worst track record when it comes to identifying who should and shouldn't be our manager

 

 

[victorturner]

3 hours ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

It’s all relative though, the top 10 all have 70 points.

 

If we made a league of 12 actual pub teams and 12 professional teams, what would happen. The pro teams would win every game vs the pub teams and the top 12 would have a massive number of points relative to the bottom 12 (who could only beat each other).

 

So the number of points is irrelevant without the context of the other sides in the league plus how the competition is faring.

 

In our case, due to the fallout from covid the bottom half of league 1 have more constrained budgets than usual, and we have a rich benefactor wasting money on wages plus a fan base which is probably 3-4 times the size of most of the other clubs.

 

Our resources are on another level. We should have done better than we have over the season. But let’s get behind them for hopefully the last 4 games and get over the line now.

Those over the moon at 82 points ought to bear in mind these points.

This is not the time to evaluate the manager and whether his players and by how much they are of higher quality than those of our rivals, but so many clubs getting 80 points or thereabouts does show that the bottom half of this division is full of struggling, underresourced clubs. Fleetwood for example have been getting attendances at around only 3000 and had only 3900 last night including our supporters. They have not won a match since January. 

 

The club and the team have done very well but so have 6-7 other clubs , even Oxford on 75 points in 8th position who beat us twice, and frankly the toughest part of the season is about to come.

The manager and players now have to get us back into the division above, from which a decent executive chairman  and team management should never have allowed us to be relegated. It would be ridiculous to run down our management at this time. 

[Utah Owl]

5 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

We have EIGHTY TWO POINTS

EIGHTY...  TWO... POINTS.

82 POINTS

EIGHTY

TWO

POINTS

C'mon Neil you know what our fan base is like.We could have 182 points and some numpties would still be calling for the manager's head.

 

In truth, I've never known criticism like it for a manager having a good season (miraculous if you look at our starting point 12 months ago), a manager who has had to build the entire side from scratch, with horrific luck on injuries yet still gets people calling for his head!

 

I'll be honest (and I know this is going to be controversial), but I'm seriously starting to wonder if there's more than a touch of racism at the root of the criticism?

[markowl]

44 minutes ago, Django said:

Not that bit

 

I agree with the replace Moore bit though 

 

 

Who would you replace him with?

[Guest DoesJackHunt]

34 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

I’ve just posted the links to this, Rotherham were the lowest with 9 signings. The rest were pretty similar to us in terms of turnover 

thank you, i'll check it out  

[Beauchief Owl]

2 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Not really. They are at the business end of the season and literally need points to stay in the league. It’s often the case struggling clubs find an extra gear and put in that extra 5% when a defeat could mean they get relegated. 

Maybe but that should also apply to teams going for the play-offs who in addition have better players.

TBH if teams aren't trying 100% every match then there's something wrong with the culture within the club.