The Wilderless Years

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, fudge27 said:

How monumentally poor we have been for 2 decades isn't a good yardstick though. 

 

United were monumentally poor for over half a decade at the point he took over. We have not recently spent 5 consecutive seasons in division 3, which is where they were at when he took charge.

Nor were they among the financial big hitters in the Championship when he got them promoted from that division. He got them up with Leon Clarke leading the line FFS! 

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

This isn’t a new conversation for football though, is it, and I’m not convinced we even really still know the answer. Even if we do, I imagine it’s something that varies wildly from club to club depending on their structure. Harry Redknapp has had these “who spends the money?” questions around his neck for years. 
 

At United, I would be surprised if Wilder had zero input in transfers and is able to wash his hands of the mess their recruitment has left them in entirely. It’s definitely something he would have publicly slated the board for if he could have put it all on the club. 

 

I don't doubt he was involved in who they recruited.

 

However, if you are an owner, chairman or chief executive of a football club and you relinquish responsibility on how much you can spend on wages and transfers to the first team manager then more fool you.   

 

 

 

[Athelwulf]

Wilder did a tremendous job with the Blades.

 

The problem is that he was too successful.

 

He got a side into the PL which should never have been there considering the quality it didn't have, one based on organization and team spirit.

 

The snag is that once that faltered there wasn't enough quality there to stay in the division.

 

As for his signings, they were largely due to the wage structure, and United knowing bob-all about the foreign market.

 

[WatfordOwl]

12 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

We have not recently spent 5 consecutive seasons in division 3

Give it time.  

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, WatfordOwl said:

Give it time.  

 

I'd have used the laughing emoji, if I wasn't afraid of this becoming a reality.

 

[TrickyTrev]

2 hours ago, Django said:

They need to get a move on if they want promotion because finances next year are going to be a little tight if they don’t go up 

Perhaps the owner could remortgage his LA mansion…. Oh hang on, he’s already done that hasn’t he.

[Skyline]

41 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

Wilder did a tremendous job with the Blades.

 

The problem is that he was too successful.

 

He got a side into the PL which should never have been there considering the quality it didn't have, one based on organization and team spirit.

 

The snag is that once that faltered there wasn't enough quality there to stay in the division.

 

As for his signings, they were largely due to the wage structure, and United knowing bob-all about the foreign market.

 

If you ask some, it was Wilders choice to not sign players from the foreign market.

 

Think I recall something about him being offers the likes of Soucek but he turned his nose up. 

 

I have no doubt all the signings he made were his signings, the blame is on his shoulders for the mess they are in now.

 

Can't dent his success though. Took a team that was struggling to get out of L1 to the Premier and an amazing first season, especially the first half of it.

[Hirstys Salopettes]

2 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Probably the job where he got their average team from League One to top half in the PL. Seems they are struggling without him, didn't know he was in charge of the finances during his time in charge either. 

 

You’re right,, he had absolutely no part whatsoever in spending circa £75 million on Brewster, McBurnie, Burke and Berge  

[Owlinmad]

He was always a one trick pony and soon got out thought by much, much better tacticians.

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Hirstys Salopettes said:

 

You’re right,, he had absolutely no part whatsoever in spending circa £75 million on Brewster, McBurnie, Burke and Berge  

 

Of course he had a part in buying them. The decisions are down to the board on how much to spend. If they couldn't afford these players they should have said no.

 

Who do you blame for our financial mess, our managers?

[fudge27]

It's not the fact the spent the money... Its who he spent the money on 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, fudge27 said:

It's not the fact the spent the money... Its who he spent the money on 

 

Really?

not the fact he allegedly left them financially crippled then as you previously stated?

 

3 hours ago, fudge27 said:

Neatly leaving off crippling them financially and leaving them with an ageing squad and one of the limpest PL seasons in history. 

 

That's the full job he did. 

 

Yes, when allowed a bigger budget he did terribly in terms of improving the team as a whole in the transfer market. Prio to that he did a fantastic job. 

They are still in a much better position than they were when he took their job. Jokanovic would not have entertained joining them if he didn't think he could get them in the promotion mix.  

[McRightSide]

So a few points on this one…

 

He definitely left them better than where he found them, but if the owner doesn’t take action there is a chance that some of the decisions Wilder made will set them back to the start - but they have plenty of time so you can’t pin that on him

 

Wilder absolutely and utterly shat the bed in the PL. He believed his own headlines and got carried away. He moved away from the essence of his success and believe he and the club were something far greater than the actually were

 

Finally, let’s not forget that he ultimately left because they wanted other people to buy the players - given the vast sums he squandered it’s hardly an unreasonable ask.
 

The reality is that he knew he was in a hole he couldn’t get out of - a hole of his own making - so he carefully manipulated the environment around him (the adulation of the fans, the big bad board for not backing him, big bad covid for keeping fans away, big bad Klopp and big bad VAR) to misdirect the fans and media attention from him stinking the place out and actually walk away with a nice payoff and his record of never being sacked intact

 

Yet for a manager so good, he’s only managed to snag the Boro job. Hmm

[smhouston]

6 hours ago, H2Owl said:

Seen a few of them on twitter clamouring for Wilder back 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

So they would have been back in the Championship had they stuck with him, just like Norwich every other season, from a base of 6 seasons in League One. Think that puts him in credit.

 

Anyone blaming any manager for the finances is a bit deluded. Who is at fault for our finances? Jos, Carlos, Bruce, Monk? 

He was actually given full control at Utd of the wage budget and transfers - it was one of his conditions for staying. You can say it's the owners fault for giving him money, but he still spent it on utter s***. End of the day, they backed him fully but he messed up big time

 

Not only that, but apparently he demanded (and got) a clause in his contract that he is always paid X amount more than the highest paid player which meant he ended up being on circa £100k / week. That's f'in ridiculous for a manager who has only achieved a few lower league promotions. Apparently Brewster was around the 8th highest paid player at circa £50k/week! 

 

Don't understand how anyone can not criticise him tbfh

[McRightSide]

1 minute ago, smhouston said:

 

 

He was actually given full control at Utd of the wage budget and transfers - it was one of his conditions for staying. You can say it's the owners fault for giving him money, but he still spent it on utter s***. End of the day, they backed him fully but he messed up big time

 

Not only that, but apparently he demanded (and got) a clause in his contract that he is always paid X amount more than the highest paid player which meant he ended up being on circa £100k / week. That's f'in ridiculous for a manager who has only achieved a few lower league promotions. Apparently Brewster was around the 8th highest paid player at circa £50k/week! 

 

Don't understand how anyone can not criticise him tbfh

Numbers are off a bit there. 
 

Think 55k is the highest 

[fudge27]

51 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Really?

not the fact he allegedly left them financially crippled then as you previously stated?

 

 

Yes, when allowed a bigger budget he did terribly in terms of improving the team as a whole in the transfer market. Prio to that he did a fantastic job. 

They are still in a much better position than they were when he took their job. Jokanovic would not have entertained joining them if he didn't think he could get them in the promotion mix.  

You stated he left them in the top half of the Premier league. Which is a blatant lie. 

 

He has financially crippled them. He bought a load of duffers on high wages who they can't move on and who aren't good enough.  Not sure what other way you could describe that recruitment 

[smhouston]

4 minutes ago, McRightSide said:

Numbers are off a bit there. 
 

Think 55k is the highest 

Just going off what a piggy has been telling me. He's not one to bull**** tbh

[Johnny Concrete]

31 minutes ago, McRightSide said:

So a few points on this one…

 

He definitely left them better than where he found them, but if the owner doesn’t take action there is a chance that some of the decisions Wilder made will set them back to the start - but they have plenty of time so you can’t pin that on him

 

Wilder absolutely and utterly shat the bed in the PL. He believed his own headlines and got carried away. He moved away from the essence of his success and believe he and the club were something far greater than the actually were

 

Finally, let’s not forget that he ultimately left because they wanted other people to buy the players - given the vast sums he squandered it’s hardly an unreasonable ask.
 

The reality is that he knew he was in a hole he couldn’t get out of - a hole of his own making - so he carefully manipulated the environment around him (the adulation of the fans, the big bad board for not backing him, big bad covid for keeping fans away, big bad Klopp and big bad VAR) to misdirect the fans and media attention from him stinking the place out and actually walk away with a nice payoff and his record of never being sacked intact

 

Yet for a manager so good, he’s only managed to snag the Boro job. Hmm

 

It's because of his tactics of using the media to channel his frustration of the board that is probably why he hasn't been in a job sooner. I mentioned it on here a bit back, but they were once discussing on Talksport about Wilder and a few other names who were then out of work and had been for a while. Simon Jordan was saying the way that Wilder conducted himself towards the end of his tenure, the bad mouthing the board and always looking for someone else to blame in regards to the club rooted to the bottom, these comments will not have gone down well with alot of chairman/owners hence why he has been out of work for some time.

[wakefieldowl]

Interesting to look at their results v position in the tanle as it stands.

Theyve beaten the botton 4.

Theyve drawn against 4 of the mid table teams, but otherwise lost to every team above them.

The only one that bucks that trend is stoke, who they beat.

Normally results are a bit all over the place in tbat division, but theres are almost bizarrely "predictable" other thsn Stoke.

 

The obvious deduction from that is that they wont go down, but wont be near play offs either.

Ill take that and watch them try and balance a massively overpaid, poor, aging squad against an increasingly tight budget.

I cant see Joker staying much beyond Xmas

 

[bradowl]

Coventry at home next, they are doing very well with a great team spirit, I can see United fans turning on manager if/when things go wrong in this fixture.