Sergeant Tibbs Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Jim said: Where have I put words in other people’s mouths? I’m just saying if any player or local journalist has a negative comment about the current manager they aren’t going to go public with it, which you wouldn’t expect them to? As for looking beyond the manager, are you suggesting I look at the Chairman or are you one of the those fans who are convinced that everything is down to Hutchinson and Westwood? Bottom line I accept there are fans like yourself who rate Monk. I don’t, is that fair enough for you or am I still putting words in your mouth? There you go again. If telling me that I’m happy with things isn’t putting words in my mouth, what is it ? I’ve telling me I rate Monk isn’t putting words in my mouth what is it. And if you can’t accept that the shambles that is SWFC isn’t down to just one man, you can’t have been following this club for the last 4 years or your blinkers must be welded on. Even on a weekend when we win you have to have another pop at him. Were you as vocal about his ineptitude at Xmas ? Please enlighten us all as to what kind of manager we can attract. Hughton thought it was beneath them. Even an out of work Steve McLaren turned us down. Bruce was in no rush to get here and as soon as a better offer came he was off. Maybe your a fan of Warnock, maybe we can prize him away from Boro. He’s doing a good job there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, Shiregreenowl 80 said: Why wouldn't u just sell club on cheap? Not always that easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Grandad said: I was told by a fairly reliable person that he has threatened admin if the EFL pursue a points deduction. Regardless of that as I don't pay too much notice to rumours - administration would write off his right to repayment of the many many millions hes invested. That would be a very bitter pill to swallow for him and what makes admin unlikely. HOWEVER Right now hes throwing £3-£4million a month down the plughole of our wages bill. Yes - he saddled us with a bill of that size. But by the time fans are allowed back in the ground he could well have chucked 8 months of that at us - and thats not sustainable for anybody. he does have an ace up his sleeve - in that hes separated the stadium from the club - and could presumably sell the stadium to any new buyer using the company thats bought it - thereby seeing a return But this is where it gets murky. The stadium sale saw a staged payment over (I think it was 8 - maybe 10) years - and you'd imagine that would mean an administrator would insist that the stadium ownership may have to be returned to them - as he would be a debtor. UNLESS the money hes been throwing at the club since lockdown has been classified as payments against the stadium. Its all very murky - and its a bloody mess. And to be fair to him - not ALL of his own making. Covid-19 hasnt helped in the slightest. But administration would potentially be awful for all fans who have supported the level of spending over the last few years. Club 1867. 10 years season tickets, 5 year season tickets, 3 years season tickets - and everybody who has already renewed. It is feasible that the monies they have paid could be lost in admin and the tickets not honoured. Thats my biggest worry. Multi millionaires flooding into British football looking to make a quick buck by getting their teams in the Premier League get no sympathy from me. Thousands of loyal Wednesday fans who have bought into the dream - they do. Many of them spend a huge proportion of their income on following Wednesday. So all in all conjecture on your part 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiregreenowl 80 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Royal_D said: Not always that easy Just don't see it. Yes the guy has been clueless when it come to running a football club. But one thing about him is he is very stubborn and this would be seen as a major failure. Plus from the words of a friend who's dealt with DC thorough is business he is "unbelievably wealthy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Shiregreenowl 80 said: Just don't see it. Yes the guy has been clueless when it come to running a football club. But one thing about him is he is very stubborn and this would be seen as a major failure. Plus from the words of a friend who's dealt with DC thorough is business he is "unbelievably wealthy" League One will be a major failure to him, and rightly so to be fair , points deduction and he’s gone He is stubborn, very , and also wealthy , but I think relegation would see him call it a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiregreenowl 80 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Royal_D said: League One will be a major failure to him, and rightly so to be fair , points deduction and he’s gone He is stubborn, very , and also wealthy , but I think relegation would see him call it a day See I think if we was relegated he is more likely to stay and put it right cus of his pride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 43 minutes ago, Shiregreenowl 80 said: Why wouldn't u just sell club on cheap? To sell , you need a buyer who would want to take on the money pit that is Wednesday . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevthelodgemoorowl Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 3 hours ago, vulva said: Thing is, unless DC changes his ways and gets some help, even if we ‘escape’ this year, we will be in the same place again soon enough. You maybe correct, but i'm not too sure. My belief is that there is far more wrong with the structure of the game and it's finances than any individual club. The National and local FA's are living in cloud cuckoo land holding the belief they are the ruling body of the game, Parents of children entering the game are in many cases paying more than £10 pw in subs ! Where is the promised money for the grass roots of the game. An EPL promise broken (Chicken feed). EFL setting rules which are ambiguous and unmanageable does no one any favours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiregreenowl 80 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, S36 OWL said: To sell , you need a buyer who would want to take on the money pit that is Wednesday . The same type of people who bought an even bigger money pit in villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Shiregreenowl 80 said: See I think if we was relegated he is more likely to stay and put it right cus of his pride Not too sure that pride goes far enough anymore, need to understand he’s well aware of the feeling amongst the fans and what gets said , some of it’s warranted he’s made mistakes .. but some goes too far and the atmosphere will be toxic if/when we’re deducted points and I’m not too sure he sticks around to take that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Tibbs Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, RichSheffWeds said: So Bruce’s philosophy was continued until Xmas then? It could be argued that, similar to his reign at Leeds, Monk built his team and tactics around a string target man. It’s no coincidence that things took a downward turn as soon as Fletcher was out of the team for a prolonged spell. Poor on Monk’s part not to have back up plan, but it also showed how toothless we are. Since football has come back, we’ve created chances, the conversion rate us poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Just now, Shiregreenowl 80 said: The same type of people who bought an even bigger money pit in villa Granted, there are people out there who would buy us, but finding one is the hard part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Grandad said: I was told by a fairly reliable person that he has threatened admin if the EFL pursue a points deduction. Regardless of that as I don't pay too much notice to rumours - administration would write off his right to repayment of the many many millions hes invested. That would be a very bitter pill to swallow for him and what makes admin unlikely. HOWEVER Right now hes throwing £3-£4million a month down the plughole of our wages bill. Yes - he saddled us with a bill of that size. But by the time fans are allowed back in the ground he could well have chucked 8 months of that at us - and thats not sustainable for anybody. he does have an ace up his sleeve - in that hes separated the stadium from the club - and could presumably sell the stadium to any new buyer using the company thats bought it - thereby seeing a return But this is where it gets murky. The stadium sale saw a staged payment over (I think it was 8 - maybe 10) years - and you'd imagine that would mean an administrator would insist that the stadium ownership may have to be returned to them - as he would be a debtor. UNLESS the money hes been throwing at the club since lockdown has been classified as payments against the stadium. Its all very murky - and its a bloody mess. And to be fair to him - not ALL of his own making. Covid-19 hasnt helped in the slightest. But administration would potentially be awful for all fans who have supported the level of spending over the last few years. Club 1867. 10 years season tickets, 5 year season tickets, 3 years season tickets - and everybody who has already renewed. It is feasible that the monies they have paid could be lost in admin and the tickets not honoured. Thats my biggest worry. Multi millionaires flooding into British football looking to make a quick buck by getting their teams in the Premier League get no sympathy from me. Thousands of loyal Wednesday fans who have bought into the dream - they do. Many of them spend a huge proportion of their income on following Wednesday. I’ll pick you up on a few of these points.. think some of it is probably pretty close to the mark, but other bits just don’t necessarily make sense. He seems like a very proud bloke who would want to save face more than anything.. hard to imagine him going down the admin route for that reason. It would be pretty embarrassing for him to put out a statement to say we were in admin, and he seems to care about honour and these sorts of things more than he does about sound business decisions. For that reason alone I can’t see that happening unless it became a financial necessity which is possible given nobody knows for sure how much capital he actually has to throw at this. People just say ‘oh he’s really rich’ but what does that mean.. anything less than £500m and he’s already blown a third of it on the club. There’s also a difference between administration and liquidation as far as I know. Administration is where you come to an agreement with your creditors on writing some of the debts off, liquidation is where you conclude the company is no longer a going concern and you sell off all of the assets. That would include the players, stadium and training ground. I can’t see why he’d go down this route given he owns the football club, the stadium holding company and is also the only debtor. If we have no external debt then who are we trying to get to write the debt off by going into admin. He wouldn’t gain anything.. the only thing I can think is that it would probably get him out of paying player contracts, but we’ve released most of the high earners, only Westwood, Lees and Rhodes left. So hard to see that as an incentive either. He could write the debt off tomorrow and it wouldn’t make any difference to the value of what he can recover. The only value he can make is by selling the club, and he’d get £30-40m after settling up no matter what the capital structure is. There are a number of reasons why it might be structured as it is, like tax, but as long as there’s no external borrowing it’s basically just accounting transactions. Also, on the longer term ticket options, there are other teams that have gone in to admin.. do we know if this meant that the tickets weren’t honoured. I’d assume that the new company post admin can still choose to honour those obligations, and were probably talking about a relatively small number of tickets here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiregreenowl 80 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, S36 OWL said: Granted, there are people out there who would buy us, but finding one is the hard part Villa managed it. Look if anybody thinks these wealthy people buy clubs to get to prem and get richer is totally wrong. It's about ego. And to move money, separate wealth. Edited July 12, 2020 by Shiregreenowl 80 Wrong word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Grandad said: I was told by a fairly reliable person that he has threatened admin if the EFL pursue a points deduction. I was told by a very reliable person that this is not true How come there are a hundred people that have reliable sources but they are all told different things stop it please…..Its just bull and I'm surprised at you peddling this bull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzuki_San Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Three hundred and fifty pages of nothing. Nothing. Sums this website up perfectly. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 I can’t see us getting anywhere near 12 points or even 9 points deducted if we lose our case. Surely not when Wigan will be deduced 12 points. Administration is significantly worse than breaking a rule isn’t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&WOwl Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) Think that’s the worst part. We have little to no clue on how much the EFL would deducted us on and hope it’s not too many for us to get relegated. Make a good point saying that administration is probably a lot worse than our situation. But who knows, The EFL might have a surprise for us yet. (Which hopefully doesn’t involve League 1) Edited July 13, 2020 by B&WOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new zealand owl Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 You would think so. They will want the deduction to hurt so if it is in the region of 6 points for example then guaranteed they will want to apply it next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everywhere & nowhere Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 What I struggle with is the issue of when deductions can be decided and to what extent the number of points depends on where you are in the season and how many points a club may have. The penalty should be what it is whenever and not change or be variable depending on whether it relegates a club or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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