Arbitration

[Rhubarb n Custard]

If our case had been cut and dried I would have thought an announcement would have been made by now.

With only 11 games left this season we have to accept that the case will likely not be affected by our league position etc.

It's more about the 2 parties reaching a conclusion that they can both live with. 

This leads me to think that the punishment will be modest, certainly in terms of a points deduction. 

It will be very interesting to see the outcome not just for our club but for the league in general. 

I could be wrong but I get the feeling that the EFL are trying to get out of this without substantial amounts of egg on their faces. 

 

[King_Monkey]

Any punishment has to be imposed by March 26th to stand this season

[Animis]

15 minutes ago, Rhubarb n Custard said:

If our case had been cut and dried I would have thought an announcement would have been made by now.

With only 11 games left this season we have to accept that the case will likely not be affected by our league position etc.

It's more about the 2 parties reaching a conclusion that they can both live with. 

This leads me to think that the punishment will be modest, certainly in terms of a points deduction. 

It will be very interesting to see the outcome not just for our club but for the league in general. 

I could be wrong but I get the feeling that the EFL are trying to get out of this without substantial amounts of egg on their faces. 

 

 

You have to consider the process - we have referred the EFL charge to arbitration. This is to investigate whether the EFL are correct in adhering to the process. I think there's three ways this could go:

 

1. We have more than enough evidence to show the EFL either expressly or implied that our intentions to include the ground sale, with all the newly created company details contained within, were within their rules.

2. There is some grey area in 1. and both parties agree to take some blame, and a minor penalty is agreed - say 6 points and the slate is wiped clean. I imagine we'd definitely take that at the moment.

3. The EFL think they have a strong case, win at arbitration and move forward to impose a big 'statement' points deduction - say up to 21 points. Looking at the timescales, its unlikely this will be wrapped up this season, so we could end up finding ourselves starting next season in the championship on -21 points.

 

Of these options, 3 would clearly be the worst, so if there is any doubt in our case, I do hope DC takes a pragmatic route to insulate the club for next season. Pride before a (small) fall and all that.

[steelowl]

2 hours ago, King_Monkey said:

Any punishment has to be imposed by March 26th to stand this season

Do you have a link to that deadline please?

[Brommers]

On 28/02/2020 at 00:11, Brommers said:

I might be in the Nags Head on Saturday,  I'll see if there's any further developments and keep you all posted.

So, i was in the Nags Head at Bradfield earlier. Not sure if that was the right one but there was a guy called Bill sat at the bar. Pizzed out of his brains after dropping 12 pints. Kept falling off his barstool mumbling something about a flipping conspiracy, EFL run by Blades, Chansiri marketing Elev8 as a cure for Coronavirus and someone called Gibson wearing two-hats.

Make of that what you will.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Brommers

[Hirstys Salopettes]

1 hour ago, Brommers said:

So, i was in the Nags Head at Bradfield earlier. Not sure if that was the right one but there was a guy called Bill sat at the bar. Pizzed out of his brains after dropping 12 pints. Kept falling off his barstool mumbling something about a flipping conspiracy, EFL run by Blades, Chansiri marketing Elev8 as a cure for Coronavirus and someone called Gibson wearing two-hats.

Make of that what you will.

this is true ... but I’m not called bill 

[Blue and white]

21 hours ago, Animis said:

 

You have to consider the process - we have referred the EFL charge to arbitration. This is to investigate whether the EFL are correct in adhering to the process. I think there's three ways this could go:

 

1. We have more than enough evidence to show the EFL either expressly or implied that our intentions to include the ground sale, with all the newly created company details contained within, were within their rules.

2. There is some grey area in 1. and both parties agree to take some blame, and a minor penalty is agreed - say 6 points and the slate is wiped clean. I imagine we'd definitely take that at the moment.

3. The EFL think they have a strong case, win at arbitration and move forward to impose a big 'statement' points deduction - say up to 21 points. Looking at the timescales, its unlikely this will be wrapped up this season, so we could end up finding ourselves starting next season in the championship on -21 points.

 

Of these options, 3 would clearly be the worst, so if there is any doubt in our case, I do hope DC takes a pragmatic route to insulate the club for next season. Pride before a (small) fall and all that.

Option 3 would be a catastrophic blow which would ultimately lead to relegation but would just delay it by 12 months.

 

[dr. benway]

22 hours ago, Animis said:

I do hope DC takes a pragmatic route to insulate the club for next season.

Uh oh. 

[Beauchief Owl]

Just now, Blue and white said:

Option 3 would be a catastrophic blow which would ultimately lead to relegation but would just delay it by 12 months.

 

…..and it would destroy next season before it started.

[Blue and white]

Just now, Beauchief Owl said:

…..and it would destroy next season before it started.

Imagine paying premiership prices to know your team is already relegated.

It's no wonder whenever you see a picture of Chansiri he is smoking like a bloody steam train.

[Beauchief Owl]

Just now, Blue and white said:

Imagine paying premiership prices to know your team is already relegated.

It's no wonder whenever you see a picture of Chansiri he is smoking like a bloody steam train.

Should have taken the hit last season when it wouldn't have mattered.

 

 

[Stoop]

No way will the EFL impose a deduction that relegates us. It’ll open up a massive can of worms

 

Say we get docked 12 points and finish 3rd from bottom. Boro stay up as a result of this. We appeal which would no doubt drag on all summer and potentially beyond. This would leave 2 divisions in limbo regarding who is playing where

 

Throw in the charges against Derby and Birmingham and the EFL have got a right sh*tshow to contend with

 

[Jeffjohnsonmyhero]

18 minutes ago, Stoop said:

No way will the EFL impose a deduction that relegates us. It’ll open up a massive can of worms

 

Say we get docked 12 points and finish 3rd from bottom. Boro stay up as a result of this. We appeal which would no doubt drag on all summer and potentially beyond. This would leave 2 divisions in limbo regarding who is playing where

 

Throw in the charges against Derby and Birmingham and the EFL have got a right sh*tshow to contend with

 

Surely if Birmingham got deducted 9 points ,We should get no more than this.

[PEARSON]

My fear is a points deduction next season. There’s so many Wednesday fans that are apathetic currently, imagine after 3 bad, mid-table seasons, we find ourselves already knowing we’re not going to have a good season before a balls even kicked. Personally I don’t agree with points deductions at all, all you’re doing is punishing the fans. If the punishments directly related to the owner (fines and personal bans) you’d see less owners risking things as Chansiris done.

[Beauchief Owl]

3 hours ago, PEARSON said:

My fear is a points deduction next season. There’s so many Wednesday fans that are apathetic currently, imagine after 3 bad, mid-table seasons, we find ourselves already knowing we’re not going to have a good season before a balls even kicked. Personally I don’t agree with points deductions at all, all you’re doing is punishing the fans. If the punishments directly related to the owner (fines and personal bans) you’d see less owners risking things as Chansiris done.

I agree, a fine is a clear and fixed punishment whereas a points deduction may not affect much or it could be a very harsh punishment. Had we been deducted points last season it would not have affected our Championship status in all probability, as was the case with Birmingham.  This year it could well lead to being relegated to L1 and with it a loss of revenue of around 5-6 million not to mention losses re ticket sales. The problems then mount if you're stuck in L1 for year upon year.

[daveyboy66]

On 29/02/2020 at 09:47, Animis said:

 

You have to consider the process - we have referred the EFL charge to arbitration. This is to investigate whether the EFL are correct in adhering to the process. I think there's three ways this could go:

 

1. We have more than enough evidence to show the EFL either expressly or implied that our intentions to include the ground sale, with all the newly created company details contained within, were within their rules.

2. There is some grey area in 1. and both parties agree to take some blame, and a minor penalty is agreed - say 6 points and the slate is wiped clean. I imagine we'd definitely take that at the moment.

3. The EFL think they have a strong case, win at arbitration and move forward to impose a big 'statement' points deduction - say up to 21 points. Looking at the timescales, its unlikely this will be wrapped up this season, so we could end up finding ourselves starting next season in the championship on -21 points.

 

Of these options, 3 would clearly be the worst, so if there is any doubt in our case, I do hope DC takes a pragmatic route to insulate the club for next season. Pride before a (small) fall and all that.

Birmingham...despite being under an embargo bought a player knowing full well they couldn't...19 points. We, on the other hand have been working with the EFL throughout the procedure and they were aware of what plans were as far as the ground and signed them off. There's no way we'll get a 21 points deduction AND if we do get a penalty DC will be suing the EFL for malfeasance as we were working under their guidance. I expect scenario 2 but can't see DC dropping this if we do.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, daveyboy66 said:

Birmingham...despite being under an embargo bought a player knowing full well they couldn't...19 points. We, on the other hand have been working with the EFL throughout the procedure and they were aware of what plans were as far as the ground and signed them off. There's no way we'll get a 21 points deduction AND if we do get a penalty DC will be suing the EFL for malfeasance as we were working under their guidance. I expect scenario 2 but can't see DC dropping this if we do.

 

If the EFL win there misconduct case would DC not be banned ?

[daveyboy66]

2 minutes ago, Royal_D said:

If the EFL win there misconduct case would DC not be banned ?

Then DC will definitely be going for it... a matter of face

 

[McRightSide]

On 29/02/2020 at 10:28, King_Monkey said:

Any punishment has to be imposed by March 26th to stand this season

Isn’t that just related to insolvency events / matters?

[sherlyegg]

6 minutes ago, daveyboy66 said:

Birmingham...despite being under an embargo bought a player knowing full well they couldn't...19 points. We, on the other hand have been working with the EFL throughout the procedure and they were aware of what plans were as far as the ground and signed them off. There's no way we'll get a 21 points deduction AND if we do get a penalty DC will be suing the EFL for malfeasance as we were working under their guidance. I expect scenario 2 but can't see DC dropping this if we do.

 

Not entirely sure, but brum didn't face misconduct charges, just a breach of ffp rules.

Misconduct charges if found guilty,  penalties are more severe. As qpr know, our case is more akin to qpr than brum..ie, accounting shuffling.